Why the 787 is special

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Travel' started by Lufthansa Flyer, Oct 25, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. Lufthansa Flyer
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    Lufthansa Flyer Gold Member

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  2. uggboy
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    uggboy Gold Member

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    Thanks for sharing additional insights into this new plane!:)
     
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  3. paladin87
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    paladin87 Silver Member

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    3. More Space
    Boeing's Chief Pilot Randy Neville said he believed this is the first feature passengers will notice about the new plane. You are "not being squeezed into a tube," he said. "You'll have a wide open area." There is also more room for overhead luggage.

    I will be waiting for airlines to request the 788 version with 50% less "wide open area" and 50% more "squeezed into a tube" for profit.
     
  4. RestlessLocationSyndrome
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    RestlessLocationSyndrome Silver Member

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    "4. Fuel Efficiency .... Another plus, according to aviation experts, the longer range will allow carriers to introduce more point-to-point routes, so passengers will have more options and fewer layovers."

    Is this really going to happen? We see multiple carriers cutting capacity and in order to fill a 787 point to point... you need a good amount of demand... obviously not as much as an A380 though. For the US, I don't think many markets outside the large ones really have this level of demand and they already have many of the direct options desired.
     
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  5. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Globally there is a huge pent-up demand for point to point long-haul routes. The A340-500 and 777-200ER have been very successful loadwise and the 777 has only had less popularity because the ETOPS limitations still apply; the moment they don't any longer I predict the entire market will rapidly shift to 777-200ER, 787 and A350. I know there have been studies showing the expected demand shift and net increases, but i do not remember where they are or what the numbers were. Maybe someone else does recall those. IIRC the expected demand in this class alone was over 5,000 aircraft during the next decade, I think it was 2010-2020. I hope my memory is accurate.
     
  6. 2wheels

    2wheels Silver Member

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    This is true, but there may be wieght issues if airlines order a plane with more seats. For example, Bombardier is designing the C-Series to be 5 abreast, with a maximum number of people to be 130 (iirc). There will be no allowance in the design for airlines to put more seats in, since then the aircraft will be overweight. I'm not sure how Boeing has designed the 787.
     
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  7. RestlessLocationSyndrome
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    RestlessLocationSyndrome Silver Member

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    I wasn't very clear in my earlier post. My main question: Is there truly enough demand to introduce new long distance point to point flights while sustaining the current long distance flights from hubs? For instance, do you think there is enough demand to do a 3x/wk flight from say SAN/SFO - BKK for a premium while being able to maintain enough traffic from LAX - BKK or LAX/SFO - Asia Connection - BKK?

    I'm not questioning the value in purchasing the 787 for the fuel savings. My point is that I question whether a significant number of new point to point routes will be introduced because of the 787. The capability to fly many of these point to point flights already exists.... and they aren't done today because there isn't the demand.

    Hypothetically, if the airlines pass the 20% savings on to consumers, demand would increase but I'm sure that they'll put these birds on the current heavily traveled routes first.... not in introducing new routes.
     
  8. DestinationDavid
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    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

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    Not really going to get into a super long debate because this doesn't interest me too much and I don't keep up with 787 specifics ( :D ), but haven't the announced 787 routes been mostly new destinations for the carriers? BOS-NRT on JL, IAH-AKL and IAH-LOS on UA/CO, etc?

    Not to mention the use of 787s to promote slimmer point to point routes by airlines could actually allow carriers to address existing capacity and profitibility issues in their current hub to hub structures. Maybe the addition of a 787 SFO-BKK would reduce demand for an LAX-BKK, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It all depends on how it plays out and how carriers integrate the new plane into the fleet and use it to address their existing capacity. For example, if AA can use 787s to make JFK-IST/ARN/OSL/CPH/NCE/LIS work (hypotheically!), perhaps that's two less 777 they need to send to LHR every day and can send to say, BOM.
     
  9. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    It can go 9-abreast in coach and a few airlines (mostly the US-based carriers) have ordered it as such. It can do that and still have the legs for IAH-AKL, for example. This is more or less what the CO seatmap will be:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Wandering Aramean
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    I think what you'll see is hub-spoke routes rather than spoke-spoke routes. SAN-BKK stands no chance for a variety of reasons but I'd expect SFO-TPE or SFO-CAN or IAH-SCL or IAH-MAD to show up from UA once they have the 787s in-house to support those frequencies.

    The 787 has the same cabin capacity roughly as a 763 but with much longer legs and a much lower CASM. There are some routes out there where currently traffic is bifurcated amongst partners with connections where the lower CASM aircraft allow it to switch to a non-stop option and remain profitable for the airline. Especially where there is demand in the premium cabin or for time-sensitive cargo.

    So, yes, I do believe we will see a number of new routes show up where the 787 makes them profitable that other aircraft wouldn't be.
     
  11. Merlin
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    Merlin Gold Member

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    This reminds me of what Henry Ford said about their model T:
     
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  12. gobluetwo
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    Frankly, this has happened more to my by adults who decide they need natural reading light than by a small child. I have often wondered why this feature hasn't made its way to high-end automobiles.
     
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  13. Wandering Aramean
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    My guess is that it isn't practical to implement on windows that go up and down rather than which have the ability to be wired at both ends.
     

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