Which cards can be converted to chip and pin based?

Discussion in 'Other Credit Card Programs' started by lichenlt, Aug 16, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. lichenlt
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    lichenlt Silver Member

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    I'm going on a trip to Europe next month and would like to get the chip and pin based cards without foreign transaction fees. Now I have Chase Sapphire Preferred, Ink Bold, and Intercontinental. Thanks.
     
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  2. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    Probably none of those. Perhaps to Chip and Signature, but I am not aware of a Chase card that has Chip and Pin.
     
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  3. edekba

    edekba Gold Member

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    I thought only Citi has Chip/Pin
     
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  4. SC Flier
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    SC Flier Gold Member

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    A recent (July 2012) press release from BoA on the subject says that their cards are still chip and signature. However, chip and PIN seems to be available to some corporate and commercial clients -- whatever that really means.
     
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  5. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    Some USA-based cards come in Chip & Signature variety. That format is compatible with our consumer cc protection against fraud. You can have it with Chase-BA, Chase-Hyatt, Citi-TY Premier -- all without foreign exchange fees. The charges must be billed in the home currency to avoid those fees!
    Chip & Pin cards are similar to our debit cards, and not as consumer friendly. So no reason to want one IMO.
     
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  6. edekba

    edekba Gold Member

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    the new Citi Reserve Hilton is also one
     
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  7. lichenlt
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    lichenlt Silver Member

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    In most cases chip and signature is good enough, but when you need to buy train tickets on an automated terminal, do you need a pin to complete the purchase?
     
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  8. edekba

    edekba Gold Member

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    i'd like to know that as well
     
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  9. SC Flier
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    SC Flier Gold Member

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    I had assumed not, but this NYT article suggests otherwise:
    When I called U.S. Bank before my trip, I was told that I could get a PIN, but that any purchase using this code would be treated like a cash advance with 21 percent interest — obviously, not an option! Fortunately, the card worked fine when I used it without a PIN to buy a train ticket from an automated kiosk in Hong Kong. As I later learned, even without a PIN, a chip-and-signature card will work at most automated kiosks around the world because a signature is not required for purchases under $50. And at payment terminals used by stores and restaurants, the chip essentially tells the machine, “This card doesn’t have a PIN, so spit out a receipt for the customer to sign.”

    Seems that it would depend on the price of your train tickets, of course.

    ETA: FT gets a HT in that article.
     
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  10. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    Tell the parking garage payment machine at the Conrad in Brussels. It kept demanding a PIN. Fortunately I had enough cash to pay for the parking fee. Or how about the unattended gas stations on a Sunday morning near AMS when I tried to fill up my rental car before returning it for an early flight back to the US. Those machines kept asking for a PIN, too :(

    As for consumer-friendly and being similar to a debit card... I don't think having a PIN feature changes anything for a US-issued credit card.
     
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  11. SC Flier
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    SC Flier Gold Member

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    In case it might have made a difference, were those purchases both over US$50?
     
  12. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    One was something like 20 Euros (parking). The other case required the card + PIN to activate the pump (kind of logical), so they just have to assume I'll pump more than 50 bucks worth of gas.

    The gas station case was annoying enough (I almost got to the point of having to return the car with a mostly empty tank or risk missing my flight) that I now have a Chip + PIN card.
     
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  13. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Unless one wants no hassle in other countries, or wants to buy European/Asian train tickets from unmanned locations, or wants to buy fuel in almost any place worldwide at an automated station, there is no reason at all.

    For US domestic use a real EMV card is no better than any other, an a chip/signature is more expensive for the issuer to accomplish nothing.

    Sent from my iPad using milepoint
     
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  14. kebosabi

    kebosabi Active Member

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    The machine may have been an offline kiosk. That being said, if it’s not connected to the acquirer, it’ll keep asking for the PIN despite that it isn’t encoded into the chip.


    Getting back on topic, I maintain a Google Docs spreadsheet over on Flyertalk which lists all the Chip-and-PIN or Signature cards that are available today for Americans. If your card shows up on that list, you can just simply ask for an upgrade at no cost to you.

    http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cred...-available-today-chip-pin-chip-signature.html
     
  15. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    When I described credit cards as more consumer friendly, I primarily meant the protections they provide when things go wrong - and unfortunately they do! When you give all your details embedded in the chip AND your pin to a barely known vendor, that's a powerful combo. The transaction may be considered final, even if it's not billed correctly. The vendor may lose, leak, or misuse your data. It's not the same level of security as giving all that to a federally chartered and FDIC-insured bank, and even those were known to leak customer data on rare occasions.

    I'm not a big fan of cash, but would not mind using it at unattended locations. But if you feel strongly about having a PIN, I understand some US banks can provide one for your chip card.
     
  16. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    My point really was: I don't think that having a PIN + Chip card issued in the US would exempt it from any consumer protection laws. It's still a credit card.

    I now have a European-issued PIN+Chip credit card with a low credit limit, exclusively for the still fairly rare case where my US cards don't work.

    Interestingly (and off-topic) one of my local grocery stores here in California now requires just a swipe (no signature or pin) for credit purchases below $25.
     
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  17. kebosabi

    kebosabi Active Member

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    I'm beginning to doubt the usual excuses banks have been making that "they cost more to produce."

    Chase, Citi, and Bank of America doesn't charge anything for a new card that comes with a chip. If you have an old magnetic stripe card and want to upgrade to one that has both the mag-stripe and the chip, they give it to you for no extra cost.

    Case in point, my original Citi AAdvantage World Elite Mastercard had no chip. Then when they sent me a new one, it came with a chip at no extra cost. Now, there's a "send Global Chip Card" tick option when you ask for a replacement card online.

    If it indeed cost ridiculously more, the banks would charge us for this convenience. Since they don't, the cost difference me thinks, is very minimal.
     
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  18. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    I liked my new chip cards, because they look cool :cool:
    But function-wise, it's hardly an upgrade. Banks have all the infrastructure to print and read magnetic strips. They may not charge a "mag stripe" fee to customers (like airlines might do), but it's hardly free to them. The same would go for the chips and chip-readers.
     
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  19. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Current typical vendor price in US for delivery of chip cards is $1.97 while magstripe are about $0.88. Obviously YMMV but chip cards are indeed much more expensive, and chip/pin is more expensive still because of database and security requirements. Thus faraud costs need to be high, say above 1% of volume to financially justify the conversion from an issuer perspective. From an acquirer (bank of the merchant) perspective similar fraud levels are just barely enough and then someone must pay the high costs for merchants to make the changeover. In the US that is typically paid by the acquirer, so they fight for the status quo.
     
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  20. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    Ignoring churners, of course, but wouldn't chip cards be more durable? I know I have multiple times requested a replacement card from Amex or Citi or Chase way before the old card was due to expire simply because the mag stripe was more or less rubbed off.

    Perhaps just a sign that I need to stop using my cards as often as I do :)
     
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  21. kebosabi

    kebosabi Active Member

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    Basing on this info:
    http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/cost-getting-credit-card-in-your-pocket-1276.php

    it seems the majority of the cost to get a card issued to you is mainly....postage.

    And yes, the cards these days are made out of really cheap plastic these days. For Citi, I would end up asking for a new card every six months because the cheap plastic keeps bending off the card. They're better off making the credit cards more durable to save them the cost of keep sending out replacements every six months.
     
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  22. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    Ohhhh... Let me introduce you to the awesome Chase Sapphire Preferred. It's made out of a magical material that is indestructible. It can reflect bullets and save your life if you carry your wallet in your breast pocket. And the points... oh, the points you earn can take you to any place on earth.

    Here's a link to sign up -- do it now. Sure, I earn a small commission of $200 for anyone who clicks that link, but I assure you am totally unbiased and truly think this card was the last invention of Steve Jobs.

    :D
     
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  23. Seacarl
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    Seacarl Gold Member

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    The Chase Hyatt card is available with Chip and Signature
     
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  24. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    Yes, Chase has multiple Chip and Signature cards. I had the BA card. But my comment was about Chip and PIN as that was the original question from the OP :)
     
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  25. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Those costs are pretty close for a magstripe card. Even though their image is of a card with a chip, their card pricing is not. Their pricing is also marginal cost, excluding the infrastructure. The typical full EMV cards (chip-pin) will cost roughly $1.70 or so on an equal basis with the chip now costing from $0.50 to $1.50 depending on features and memory. The postage they show appears to be an all in delivery cost also, thus substantially overstating postage only by seeming to include packaging and stuffing as well, which is the common technique for issuers that outsource the process.
     
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