Which 767-300 routes are changing from 3 Class to 2 Class cabins

Discussion in 'United Airlines | MileagePlus' started by mundosurfer, Jul 16, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. mundosurfer
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    mundosurfer Gold Member

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    I was looking at my reservations and noticed my EWR-EZE reservations all had new seat assignments.
    The seatmap now show 2 Class 763 on the route, I know EWR-IST will also be 2 Class.
    Does anyone know which other cities are losing F?
     
  2. EWR764
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    EWR764 Silver Member

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    ORD-AMS (sooner or later), IAD/ORD/SFO-CDG are some more.
     
  3. mgrepo

    mgrepo Silver Member

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    This caught me by surprise as well. I just got off the phone with United and they manually have to figure out how to give me back my upgrade support (miles one way, GPU the other) that I used to get to F. At least the plane has flatbeds in Business First instead of the PMCO older planes that are still flying to EZE from IAH.
     
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  4. Sean Colahan
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    Sean Colahan Gold Member

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    It sounds like UA is putting 2-cabin international to all non *A international hubs (AMS, CDG, etc) while keeping the 3-cabin on routes to LHR, FRA, MUC, and long-haul Asia. A good strategy I think.
     
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  5. Golfingboy
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    Golfingboy Gold Member

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    Except ORD/IAD-MUC will be upgauged to a 764, but without an F cabin.
     
  6. EWR764
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    EWR764 Silver Member

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    Most likely. I know a considerable number of revenue F pax inbound to European *A hubs continue onward to the Middle East, India and Africa on LH/LX metal. Besides that, FRA/ZRH/BRU/LHR/GVA seem to be have the strongest local F demand. At the non-*A hubs, there is little onward traffic and, with the exception of CDG, competition is two-class.

    I think this is winter seasonal only.
     
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  7. Seacarl
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    Seacarl Gold Member

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    ZRH, BRU, GVA, LHR get plenty of investment bankers, lawyers, and lobbyists, some of whom may be entitled to paid F. Maybe even FRA. And ZRH, FRA, BRU have onward *A connections which could support some F traffic.
     
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  8. EWR764
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    EWR764 Silver Member

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    Hence the sUA 3-cabin birds moving to EWR-BRU/GVA/ZRH immediately following the merger! If UA had enough 767s/777s to cover all the sCO EWR-LHR flying, they would probably go 3-class there too, but that will probably take another year or so of shuffling and a joint CBA for the pilots to make it work.

    Did you see yesterday's WSJ article regarding international first class cabins? Not exactly anything earth-shattering, but confirms what many of us already know regarding paid F travel. Link here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444097904577535280680475986.html (just search the link in Google for the complete article)
     
  9. Seacarl
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    Seacarl Gold Member

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    Saw the WSJ article but only first 2 paragraphs, didn't make the effort to look for the full thing. WSJ is annoying in that I even have a print subscription but that doesn't give online access.

    I've been surprised that UA hasn't done more optimization of fleet use in where to put 3-class aircraft. Do they face restrictions in the CBA on which aircraft can fly where? I didn't think so. But paid F demand to LHR is probably low in the summer, might pick up in September.
     
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  10. EWR764
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    EWR764 Silver Member

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    With the longer hauls, moving crews around becomes more challenging and less efficient, especially because s-UA crew bases in s-CO hubs are not yet large enough to support such extensive operations. Some more changes are coming in late 2012/early 2013 when the crossover bases are up to speed, such as LAX-PVG/NRT going to s-CO 777 and one IAH-LHR getting a s-UA 777. I'm sure more will come.
     
  11. Camino Cielo

    Camino Cielo Silver Member

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    I worry that this evolution is a precursor to a hefty increase in miles required for international business class award travel.
     
  12. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    Why?

    The current business class rates are on par with other programs and CO's version was for the most part, too, even when they didn't have F. The exception was RTW awards where CO kept BF as F.
     
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  13. Seacarl
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    Seacarl Gold Member

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    Eventually I expect there to be 3 fare classes and award rates for Economy, Premium Economy, and "BusinessFirst"
     
  14. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    If the company starts to sell a Premium Economy product that is actually a separate cabin then I agree. But the current E+ is not that at all.
     
  15. HeathrowGuy
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    HeathrowGuy Gold Member

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    United likely wouldn't find the additional spend needed to turn E+ into a discrete Premium Economy product worthwhile.
     
  16. unavaca
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    unavaca Gold Member

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    Not gonna happen unless UA comes out with a E+ that rivals NZ/BR's E+. If that happens, I wouldn't expect it to be free for elites.
     
  17. Seacarl
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    Seacarl Gold Member

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    I'm not sure it will happen domestically, but in the intercontinental routes, I expect that the price difference between the lie-flat business first product and the cramped economy product will enable a new tier to be established which has more premium features than Y+. I will offer wider seats, more recline and maybe improved catering and eventually it will have its own fare codes and then that will be the upgrade from economy. I think the market is there and the industry will respond. I bet it will happen sooner than we think, within the next 3-4 years. Full international F will be phased out, and a new mid-tier will get established.
     
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  18. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    The big change you note, Seacarl, is wider seats. until that happens it is just economy, even with extra legroom or a free drink. That is certainly the direction the industry is heading but I think we're still 5+ years from seeing a US carrier go there.
     

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