What's going on with CO 133

Discussion in 'United Airlines | MileagePlus' started by Infinite1K, Dec 28, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. Infinite1K
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    Infinite1K Silver Member

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    Since December 15, one of the CO 757s flying the CDG to IAD route has been diverted 5 times. Considering it was scheduled to fly 9 times during this period, it means it is diverting more than half the time.

    More info on Flightaware:

    http://flightaware.com/live/flight/COA133
     
  2. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    Unfavorable winds?
     
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  3. NYBanker
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    This one is easy: Fuel. Not enough of it.

    That is a long route for a 757 heading west over the Atlantic.

    757-200s have a max range of 3,900nm. Covert that to statute miles, and you're up to 4,485. GCmap.com, which I think quotes statute miles, shows the route as 3,861 "miles." Factor in headwinds which westbound flights over the north Atlantic face, I'm surprised it makes it as often as it does.

    I don't know if CO 757s have winglets...that would help the equation, but not enough.

    Periodically, AA runs 757s from JFK to Spain and they have similar issues.

    Sources:
    http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=cdg-iad
    http://www.boeing.com/commercial/757family/pf/pf_200tech.html
     
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  4. tommy777
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    tommy777 Co-founder

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    My flight across the Atlantic yesterday had some very strong winds and took longer than expected. Fortunately, I was on an airline that schedules equipment that has the range to handle the route it's serving under any condition. The only airline that doesn't is continental ;)
     
  5. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    Yes, they do. And they're pulling seats out to lighten the loads as well, with that process expected to be completed in the next 4-6 weeks.

    Still, the number of diversions that is being seen on these two routes has me thinking there is more to it than just the 752 range. I wonder if there is something different about the alternate airports that are filed or something else that is further limiting the options available for these flights.
     
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  6. AZjohn

    AZjohn Silver Member

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    All I can add is thank God I decided years ago to never fly in/out of CDG again in my life
     
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  7. Flyer1976
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    You're forgetting US Airways that flies 757s across the Atlantic with diversions to Gander, Bangor, and Boston...

    You're spot on, it could be weather specific, route specific (dispatcher specific as well) if they cannot make the alternate airport or exhaust minimum fuel they will have to divert for refueling at some point.
     
  8. Lufthansa Flyer
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  9. Flyer1976
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    Unfortunately ORY isn't that great either... Oh well...
     
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  10. AZjohn

    AZjohn Silver Member

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    I haven't had the pleasure yet to experiance ORY. But I will remember what you said DIG/R_1K and avoid that airport too ;)
     
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  11. Lufthansa Flyer
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    Altogether better to just avoid France it seems....
     
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  12. NYBanker
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    AA's 757s have made plenty of fuel diversions coming across the Atlantic, too.
     
  13. NYBanker
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    What is it with all this OT French-bashing? Did my browser redirect me to another site?
     
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  14. tommy777
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    Continental has made the 757s a business model to get in to several markets in Europe they couldn't operate on a larger aircraft, the list of cities served is pretty long. AA and US has a handful of destinations only, still, a product I stay away from.

    I really like pre merger United's public approach to it: We don't do single aisle products without range to Europe - period. It's a business model all European airlines follow and it's a very professional approach to what you are selling

    IMHO, as a business traveler, I would never buy a premium product that might need a fuel stop along the way to my meeting, a stop that will make me miss my connection and end up in coach on the next flight..
     
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  15. Wandering Aramean
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    Such a guarantee doesn't exist. You can reduce the chances, but not eliminate it.

    The two new routes ex-IAD are performing far worse than any of the ex-EWR ones did. There's gotta be something else going on with them that is skewing the issue.

    As for UA only operating wide body aircraft, they didn't have the 75s that could make the flights. If they did they probably would've used them. I'm not entirely sure what is "professional" about over-sizing the aircraft on routes versus demand but I'm guessing you've got a theory there.
     
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  16. Hartmann
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    Hartmann Gold Member

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    Does anyone know if the rumor about the pilots union not wanting to make the fuel logs public is true? What I have heard through random conversations is that operations and planning is not allowed to use the fuel logs from these flights to make future decisions without the blessing of the CO pilot's union.
     
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  17. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    I am sure if they could have done it profitably, they would have done it... "professional approach" be damned. There are lots of reasons why a flight could be delayed (how "professional" are those 747 breakdowns that have apparently warranted a separate mega thread on FT). If making a connection or being at the destination at a particular point in time is crucial for a business traveler (or other), I'd plan with a buffer, whether flying on a 757 or an A380.
     
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  18. Mackieman
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    Looks like CO69 (ARN-EWR) got fuel diverted yesterday too.
     
  19. tommy777
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    And how many fuel diversions have you or anyone had on a 777 across the Atlantic? ;)

    The option is what UA has been doing for a long time: Not serving destinations that doesn't have demand for the available equipment

    Not all United's 757s has the 2037 model PW, the 2040 model has better range than COs RR so if Classic UA really wanted to, they could slap on a couple of WLs on the 2040s equipped 757s and done the same from IAD, but they decided not to.
     
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  20. Hartmann
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    Do the 2040 model 752s have the ETOPS cert to do the route?
     
  21. tommy777
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    Yes, they fly to Hawaii.
     
  22. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    But do you know that PMUA did that out of concern for its customers getting inconvenienced by potential diversions, or because they looked at the profitability and found that using the same aircraft (without winglets) elsewhere was better for the bottom line? (and leave it to LH to route those passengers from secondary markets through FRA/MUC)
     
  23. cova

    cova Gold Member

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    CO used the 757's they had to expand with more profitable flights to Europe. CO simply did not have enough wide bodies to use. CO ordered a bunch of 787's (first US airline to order) and we all know those have been delayed several years. Choice is fly with what you got - or don't fly those more profitable routes.

    My understanding is the CO was forced to put a 762 on the EWR-TXL route by the German government in order to keep the route.
     
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  24. tommy777
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    Who knows, but the official statements (and there has been a few) is that UA will not offer a single aisle product on intercont because of comfort and operational concerns.

    That's now history, though. Smisek and the ex CO folks are running the show over there and for each diversion, they are loosing credibility IMHO, but the 787s are probably replacing the 757s so it won't be an issue anymore. That said, the winds this year have been extreme, usually, the diversions are minimal to EWR, IAD seems more problematic (like Seth says).
     
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  25. Rob
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    Rob Gold Member

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    Any chance you have a link to those (totally understand if they were a while back and impossible to find now)?
     

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