Very Disappointed with Hyatt Redemptions

Discussion in 'Hyatt | Gold Passport' started by robertw477, Jul 30, 2013.  |  Print Topic

  1. robertw477

    robertw477 Silver Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    77
    Status Points:
    295
    All the bloggers tell you how great Hyatt points program is. Not in my opinion. At the next FTU I will be happy to challenge anyone who tells me otherwise. I have been with SPG for many years and frankly had great success redeeming points. I found out how Hyatt avoids letting you book rooms with points. Going to Paris in Sept and no availability. They have plenty of rooms but they call all those rooms upgraded rooms therefore not available for points. One such upgraded room at Paris Vendome is 35 Euros more than the standard room. Nice little trick. Even when SPG doesn't have a "standard room" you can get a different room for a few more points per night. On occasion I am not happy about that as the rooms are often pretty standard to me, but you can get a room. I could not show one single room available on HYATT via points in Paris. I guess this happens at many of their top or high end properties. For me SPG is still top in many ways. Calling Hyatt was a joke with all the voice activated questions you have to answer before talking to a rep.
     
    Tenmoc, marcwint55, Espan and 3 others like this.
  2. mattsteg
    Original Member

    mattsteg Gold Member

    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    5,543
    Status Points:
    4,170
    Starwood hotels have the same freedom to make very few rooms standard as Hyatts do. Neither property shows upgraded rooms available online for points, and Hyatt's point rates for suites are better.

    So basically you're complaining about characteristics of the hyatt program that are not really that different from spg.
     
    Kalboz, marcwint55, MX and 1 other person like this.
  3. gleff
    Original Member

    gleff Co-founder

    Messages:
    3,616
    Likes Received:
    6,793
    Status Points:
    4,670
    The most expensive Hyatt hotels run 22,000 points. That takes $4400 of in-hotel spend (excluding elite bonuses and check-in amenities).

    The most expensive Starwood hotels run 70,000 points. That takes $35,000 of in-hotel spend (excluding elite bonuses and check-in amenities).

    To confirm a 4 night suite upgrade at booking on an eligible paid rate at the Park Hyatt Tokyo is 6000 Gold Passport points.

    To confirm a 4 night suite upgrade 5 days prior to arrival, not at booking on an eligible rate at the Westin Tokyo is 80,000 Starpoints.

    Hyatt charges 50% more than a standard room for an award in a suite. Starwood charges 100% more.

    I like the Starwood program. i think that the Starwood American Express is a better product than the Hyatt Visa. Starwood is a much better program for transfers to miles. And Starwood has twice as many properties in its program as Hyatt does.

    There are things to like in each, but the examples above illustrate some of the reasons that I think Hyatt's program is even better. And that doesn't factor in that Hyatt Diamonds get 4 confirmed at booking suite upgrades each year (valid up to 7 nights each), while Starwood 50 night Platinums get 10 nights which are confirmable up to 5 days prior to arrival rather than at booking.

    Still, Starwood Platinums can get upgraded to suites if there are any left at check-in while the Hyatt upgrade benefit at check-in excludes suites (extra-generous properties notwithstanding).

    And I've picked the Tokyo upgrade example for maximum effect -- the Hyatt upgrade award for 6000 points is up to 4 nights, a 5 night upgrade would be 12,000 Hyatt points.
     
    sfaulk4, tommy777, Scottrick and 10 others like this.
  4. edekba

    edekba Gold Member

    Messages:
    3,462
    Likes Received:
    3,783
    Status Points:
    2,145
    I got 3 nights @ Paris Vendome in November w/o a problem :( Getting a room @ the Westin Paris Vendome ... was not even an option.

    both have pros/cons
     
  5. JetsettingEric
    Original Member

    JetsettingEric Silver Member

    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    705
    Status Points:
    695
    It's good to have a diverse set of points. For Paris, I love Club Carlson and the various Radisson Blus scattered throughout the city. Small boutiquey hotels and for 25,000 points per night (after the buy one get one with the credit card) and you earn 5x points on normal spend, so they are generally "worth less" than SPG and hyatt.
     
    Kalboz and marcwint55 like this.
  6. ballardFlyer

    ballardFlyer Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    1,528
    Status Points:
    1,120
    I just did PH Vendome on points. Rates were about $750 EUR (about $1050) a night for standard rooms. I booked the day before I arrived @ 22k points/day and it was right during the Tour de France ending nearby in Paris on July 20-22.

    Just watch for a regular room to cancel closer in and you will get it.

    Agree with all follow up posters that Hyatt GP point redemptions are valuable and costs are transparent unlike SPG and Hilton that have many ways to jack up rates for exceptions and unique properties.
     
    Kalboz and marcwint55 like this.
  7. Terry Yap

    Terry Yap Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    2,934
    Status Points:
    1,425
    Perhaps it's just the dates that you were looking for that were unavailable. The potential to get a room for 22,000 points for a top Hyatt property is great value. Just ask Hilton elites...
     
    IDGflygirl, Kalboz and marcwint55 like this.
  8. Hyatt Gold Passport Concierge
    Original Member

    Hyatt Gold Passport Concierge Official Representative

    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    758
    Status Points:
    695
    Hi!

    You are more than welcome you can start a conversation with us here, on MilePoint. I will be happy to see if I can assist you with making a reservation.

    Have a good day!

    Nick B.
     
    IDGflygirl, tommy777, MX and 6 others like this.
  9. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

    Messages:
    4,739
    Likes Received:
    5,086
    Status Points:
    4,270
    I too am puzzled about why Hyatt GP has so many apologists.

    The chain reminds me a lot of the small Liberal Arts university that I had attended in Texas for my undergraduate studies in the late 70s: It was considered a great school because it was so small (total student body: ~900 in 1977) that every student got personalized attention from the professors. By comparison, such personalized attention was practically impossible to get at the University of Texas (UT) at Austin, just 25 min down on IH-35, because its student body was more than 40K big at the time. UT, however, offered the students more choices in terms of curriculum and for much less money than did my stellar undergrad school.

    So, what does that have to do with Hyatt?

    With less than 500 properties worldwide (compared with 3,900+ Hilton properties, or 3,700+ SPG or MAR properties), Hyatt can afford to offer great overall service to guests (i.e., personalized attention), but they cannot afford to be too generous to too many with things like suite upgrades (i.e., curriculum) because they won't make any money. That is the concept behind what the OP just ran into. It is really that simple and facts bear it out: The perks for GP Platinum elites are the worst among second tier elites in the industry, and to make GP Diamond, which is the only status in GP that gets any recognition at all, one must be able to afford 25 stays or 50 nights at some of the priciest properties in the industry without going broke. By comparison, Hilton Honors Golds have the best second-tier elite benefits in the industry, and I am on pace to make HHonors Diamond in just 12-13 stays, i.e., half as many stays as I would need to make GP Diamond. Also, while one can make HH Diamond by spending $40K on the Citi HHonors Reserve visa, a $40K spend on the Chase Hyatt visa will get you only 20% of the number of stays or nights needed to make GP Diamond. There is no low hanging fruit at GP! So, one may wonder whether GP Diamonds enjoy better benefits than HH Diamonds because it is so much more expensive to make GP Diamond. Not at all. I did do a lengthy comparison of GP vs. HHonors Diamonds benefits that convinced me that Hyatt GP is not the stellar program bloggers keep claiming it is. For instance, 4 guaranteed suite upgrades a year for GP Diamonds sounds great, but that will not impress those of us who know that HH Diamonds get unlimited suite upgrades, even on reward stays (try getting one of those at Hyatt!), depending on availability. Before one jumps on that caveat, I have pictures of the interior of all my suite upgrades of the past couple of years (quite a few already uploaded to various threads here on MP) to prove that availability is excellent.

    Bottom line: I can sympathize with the OP. The putting up of Hyatt on a pedestal is a mystery. Service overall at Hyatt is great, and their properties are done tastefully and I give them high marks for both. However, the worshiping of GP as a great program by bloggers brings to mind the word 'idolatry', as defined in the Old Testament...;)
     
    marcwint55 and Espan like this.
  10. Hyatt Gold Passport Concierge
    Original Member

    Hyatt Gold Passport Concierge Official Representative

    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    758
    Status Points:
    695
    Hi robertw477! I was able to obtain your dates of stay, and it is during the start of Paris Fashion Week. During that time, the hotel is very busy, and I show in the hotel inventory, standard rooms are sold out until early October. If you would like me to look at other hotels in the area, or alternate dates, I would still be happy to assist you with this. Thank you for your cooperation and making us aware of this.

    Safe travels,

    Nick B.
     
    boondr, IDGflygirl, MX and 3 others like this.
  11. mattsteg
    Original Member

    mattsteg Gold Member

    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    5,543
    Status Points:
    4,170
    Great service probably has something to do with why Hyatt is popular with a certain crowd, along with overall solid benefits, including industry-leading in-hotel earn rates for high-end hotel stays - ~2600 spend for Diamond with CC, plus another every 22 stays from the amenity. Hilton's moved from great to ~average or below in this regard, depending on stay pattern - ~3k spend for similar all-in points earner, plus another every 95 stays.
    GP Plat is a 5 stay status. You could argue that the more appropriate status to compare to is Hilton Silver in some ways, which is far worse. There is absolutely a hole where there is no real mid-tier, and CC-status people will not get the same benefits as they would at hilton.
    The other question is how many nights...as my recollection is that your average stay length may be over 2 nights so you would qualify there instead if you qualified. There's no doubt that Hilton Gold is quite generous in benefits, especially for a CC-holder status. The footprint/cost issue is also one that is doubtless important to consider.
    Yes, you need to spend the nights in their hotels.
    A comparison based basically on experience with the Hilton program in one region of the world, and no noteworthy experience at all with Hyatt. FWIW my hit-rate for complimentary suite upgrades is actually better as a Hyatt Diamond than as a Hilton one...all the Hilton program does is gives their hotels permission to upgrade to suites (but also permission to stick you anywhere except the worst room and call it your upgrade). If hotels are inclined to be generous with upgrades, they do not need permission. Surely you received at least the occasional complimentary suite upgrade prior to Hilton revising their T&Cs to permit it?
    The 4 suite upgrades benefit is either great or semi-useless. Most of the stays where I would want to use it, I am paying points so would either need to pay 50% more points to confirm, or leave it up to the hotel. The value I get from them is less than the value of people who regularly have paid multinight stays at properties that they'd want a suite at. With that said, your photos of a "couple of years" of suites suggest that you were getting suites prior to Hilton giving properties permission to offer them. Is this the case, or did the change in the T&Cs unleash the floodgates? If you were getting them previously, why would you assume that Hyatt must not?
    It's simple - excellent properties and service (regardless of elite level), favorable earning and redemption ratios at top-end properties, and some people value the confirmed suite upgrades highly.

    I do agree that Hilton gets thrown under the bus some for the magnitude of their changes/devaluation rather than evaluating their current program, but don't think your take on the hyatt program is quite accurate either.
     
    NYCUA1K, IDGflygirl, tommy777 and 5 others like this.
  12. marcwint55

    marcwint55 Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,516
    Likes Received:
    4,573
    Status Points:
    2,570
    After reading all of the above comments, I still believe that all of the hotel programs have their benefits and disadvantages when compared with others. I have top status at Starwood, Marriott, Hilton and Hyatt. I have been given very nice suite upgrades from all four chains and there are times when I have been disappointed with all four.
    I truly believe that the individual hotels are the key to success. There are great hotels in each program and there are so-so hotels in each program. If one does a bit of research and also contacts the hotel prior to arrival to request upgrades or special needs, one is likely to have much more success and a greatly enhanced stay.
     
  13. Pizzaman
    Original Member

    Pizzaman Co-founder

    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    8,754
    Status Points:
    7,270
    I feel like I'm just piling on what others have said, but I definitely see more value in hotel redemptions with Hyatt as compared to Starwood, especially for suites as gleff mentions.

    He's also right about the value of the SPG card, though I have found Hyatt to be generous with promos for people that HOLD the card, though not a requirement to spend on it. They've also had some lucrative spend bonuses as well.

    In short, I do think you hit something of a bad spot in an otherwise rosy program. I see one of the Hyatt folks has jumped in to try and help with a reservation for you. I hope you'll report back on your successes or failures from that.
     
    marcwint55 and Kalboz like this.
  14. Gtitan
    Original Member

    Gtitan Gold Member

    Messages:
    7,069
    Likes Received:
    12,437
    Status Points:
    12,520
    My two cents, loved being a Hyatt Diamond, great recognition, great benefits, top notch. Coverage is lacking compared to the other Flags.:(
     
    marcwint55 likes this.
  15. Kalboz
    Original Member

    Kalboz Gold Member

    Messages:
    8,994
    Likes Received:
    22,424
    Status Points:
    14,520
    Great! I see more value, however, in booking the least expensive rate and then upgrading for 6K points of up to 4 nights in a suite.
    Although the OP personal situation/disappointment couldn't be helped here due to the circumstances (Paris Fashion Week, availability, etc.) ... the personal attention shown here speaks volumes of this program's 5-star qualities.
     
    marcwint55, IDGflygirl and MX like this.
  16. Kalboz
    Original Member

    Kalboz Gold Member

    Messages:
    8,994
    Likes Received:
    22,424
    Status Points:
    14,520
    My upgrade rate as a Hyatt Platinum (not even a Diamond) at check-in by FD personnel at various properties stands at better than 50%. As SPG Gold, on the other hand, my upgrade rate is 0%.

    Although both are great chains, Hyatt was the reason I got involved in our hobby of miles/points, see here: http://milepoint.com/forums/threads/grand-hyatt-erawan-bangkok.3536/#post-125847
     
  17. Scottrick
    Original Member

    Scottrick Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    4,078
    Status Points:
    2,570
    It kind of reminds of the 'idolatry' of big-name football schools, too. I can only imagine how much better UT would be if they got rid of their sports teams and focused on academics. I went to a large school with no significant athletic program, and we had both course diversity and personalized attention.

    I like that Hyatt focuses on Hyatt, even if that means it stays smaller than some of its competition. I have a hard time sometimes figuring out if Starwood, Hilton, and Marriott are hoteliers or general purpose tour companies with dining programs.
     
    marcwint55 likes this.
  18. mattsteg
    Original Member

    mattsteg Gold Member

    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    5,543
    Status Points:
    4,170
    Somewhat off-topic, but I'm not sure how much of a difference any of that would make in terms of the school's academic performance. Would it change? Maybe, but if so more through attracting a different set of students than anything else. It's not like big-name football programs are a drain on the schools - they're self-sustaining and indeed income generating. Other than whatever cultural influence they exert, they're not affecting the academic programs all that much. If anything they help to generate interest and investment. From last year's final top-25 in football, Ohio state finished at 3, and is the top public research institution by the measures used by http://mup.asu.edu/research2011.pdf . UT awarded the second-most doctorates of any university that year as well. The Univ of Alabama is in the midst of a massive investment in engineering education infrastructure. So is Auburn. Michigan is also a top public university. For the most part personal attention is what you make it, and most/all schools will have strengths and weaknesses. You can get lost in the shuffle at a smaller school or know every teacher on a first name basis at a school with 50k+ enrolled students. I wouldn't necessarily credit a lackluster athletic program for personalized attention.

    What school did you attend, out of curiousity?
     
  19. tommy777
    Original Member

    tommy777 Co-founder

    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    6,596
    Status Points:
    4,570
    I'm definitely not a Hyatt apologist, there are strength and weaknesses with all programs. Availability is not something I'd say is a weakness for either Hyatt or SPG. I have 2 rooms and a suite booked on points at the Park Hyatt Vendome for a 3 day weekend after Laborday. In fact, I have never had an issue redeeming or upgrading with points or confirmed suite upgrades.

    Here are my Hyatt Pros and cons

    Pros
    Great redemption ability
    Best breakfast for top tiers of all programs
    4 confirmed suite upgrades and cheap to use points to upgrade

    Cons
    Very limited properties
    Very limited luxury properties and resorts
    No suite upgrades for Diamonds even if they're available at check in.

    Sure, some folks upthread, especially those staying in Asia, can get a better suite upgrade percentage, but that is NOT the norm for Hyatt (and I´m talking about suite upgrades. Domestic US, I've gotten one upgrade this year and it was because the property was packed, last year I got ZERO domestic US upgrades). In fact, at the Park Hyatt Shanghai we did not get a suite even if it was available for a short 1 night stay and at the Grand Hyatt Singapore, they have stopped upgrading Diamonds without instruments, a policy confirmed twice this year. And as many above, I mostly stay one night, so those 4 suite upgrades are a waste for stays like that.

    On suite upgrades, SPG rocks big time, I rarely stay in a regular room at a Starwood property. But of course redeeming extremely desirable and expensive SPG properties, is a lot more expensive than Hyatt as Gary states above, but regular redemption at 99% of SPG properties is a little more balanced ;)

    If Hyatt would upgrade Diamonds in to suites like SPG, they would be close to a perfect loyalty program.
     
    Gtitan, marcwint55 and LETTERBOY like this.
  20. Scottrick
    Original Member

    Scottrick Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    4,078
    Status Points:
    2,570
    It was meant more as an analogy than anything else. I'm aware that schools with good athletic programs can have good academics. But the cultural issue you raised is one example, and I think that while academics may attract some of their own funding, they also may distract donors from other funding priorities.

    I attended graduate school at University of Washington, where my access to the research lab was restricted on game days (and buses were re-routed) because the athletic department took over the parking lots. The university president eventually left to head the NCAA. Research output is good, but mostly (IMO) because there are lots of labs. Volume != quality. The campus scholarships I heard most about were related to the Tyee Club, which is an athletic endowment.

    By contrast, I attended UC Irvine as an undergraduate, where at least one new research building opened every year (UCI = Under Construction Indefinitely). I didn't even know we had a fight song until graduation. The university president also left while I was there, but he went to head the NAS (National Academy of Sciences). The campus scholarships I heard most about were the Chancellors and Regents Scholarships, merit scholarships which do exist at other UC campuses, but at Irvine they were significantly larger and covered full tuition.

    Getting back to the point, I like that Hyatt focuses on Hyatt. They aren't interested in that many partnerships, and the few they've added (like MGM) are more strategic for offering their guests a place to stay where they don't have their own presence. They don't pitch me with time shares, they don't pitch me with dining programs, they don't pitch me with airline alliances, they don't pitch me with gift cards and vacation packages and so on. They are a hotel, and that's what they do. They do it well.
     
    LETTERBOY likes this.
  21. mattsteg
    Original Member

    mattsteg Gold Member

    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    5,543
    Status Points:
    4,170
    An Anteating Husky!

    Both quality schools, and productive with good-quality research in their areas of strength from what I know by experience or reputation. I think your perception *may* be slightly colored by the nature of the individual departments you were involved with (and really in terms of quality at the top it really comes down to individual departments, as even similar departments at the same university can have very different cultures). I know and have worked with great faculty at each institution.

    I don't care too much about Hyatt lacking partnerships that I wouldn't use anyway, except as far as it helps them focus on what they do well.
     
  22. skyvan

    skyvan Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    3,688
    Status Points:
    2,045
    If not being able to get a room at the Park Hyatt Vendome in Paris is your only complaint then you have a very weak case.
     
  23. Zomby Woof

    Zomby Woof Silver Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    338
    Status Points:
    545
    Would be nice if you could use the points and just pay the $35/night difference.
     
    marcwint55 and edekba like this.
  24. Pizzaman
    Original Member

    Pizzaman Co-founder

    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    8,754
    Status Points:
    7,270
    We're in agreement on most everything above except suite upgrades. I truly think this is a YMMV area. Over 50% of my Hyatt stays have been upgraded and if you pull out my frequent stays in Denver I'm at about 40%. Contrast that with 12 SPG stays this year and 1 upgrade. I'm not the only person I know with a pattern like mine and you're not the only person I know with a pattern like yours.
     
    marcwint55 and LETTERBOY like this.
  25. marcwint55

    marcwint55 Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,516
    Likes Received:
    4,573
    Status Points:
    2,570


    We are at opposite ends of the spectrum. My suite upgrade percentage so far this year is 100% at Hyatt. In Hawaii we were even upgraded to the penthouse suite which was fantastic.
     
    sfaulk4, boondr and Scottrick like this.

Share This Page