US Dad sues JAL for "assisting" his ex-wife in parental kidnapping (not obtaining his approval)!

Discussion in 'JAL | Mileage Bank' started by JALPak, Apr 17, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. JALPak
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    JALPak Gold Member

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    So basically the parents filed a divorced and was granted joint custody. The mother, who is a Japanese, had to turned in her passport and are not allowed to travel outside the 5 counties in and around LA. So the mother obtained a Japanese passport for her son and fly back to Japan. Now the Dad is suing JAL and below are his arguements

    I don't know about this...but if the dad wins, what's going to happen next? Parents suing airlines because their runaway kid took a flight without their written consent? Wife suing airlines when her husband ran away with another lady? And the airlines should check because there's a wedding ring tan line and the lady next to him is "obviously" not his wife and the airline didn't call to notify her :rolleyes:

    I understand the Dad is upset and he has all the rights to be. But suing the airline isn't going to solve this domestic dispute
     
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  2. sendaiben
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    sendaiben Gold Member

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    Are you double posting with FT? :rolleyes:
     
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  3. JALPak
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    Feel free to double reply too :rolleyes: I like discussions on FT more. There are more knowledgable members participating in discussions over there :)
     
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  4. Bob Smolinsky
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    In Europe years ago they had check for when one parent tried to leave the country with their kids on different passports.

    Basically you needed a "permission slip" from the other parent.

    But this disappeared years ago, especially if the last names are the same.
     
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  5. Bob Smolinsky
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    Oh and the check was at immigration not at the airline. So he should sue TSA
     
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  6. kwai
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    kwai Gold Member

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    Americans are litigous... surprise surprise (I carry a US passport.. surprising perhaps for a water buffalo). Anything that foils plans in the US is a basis for a lawsuit. My hope is this gets thrown out as frivolous.
     
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  7. KyRoamer
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    KyRoamer Gold Member

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    Is that wrong? I hope not. If it was, for now I'd have to stop posting many types of messages here.
     
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  8. Bob Smolinsky
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  9. thegrailer
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    thegrailer Silver Member

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    In a joint custody situation, a parent needs permission to take a child out of the country. And in much the same way an airline will check that one has a visa [e.g., read some of the FT threads about trying to MR through Moscow and not being allowed to board a flight]. If the airline is assuming "border control" while boarding its flights, it surely must need to do the same for children flying with one parent. More so to a place such as Japan where joint custodial parents appear to be taking children without permission.

    As for the US being a litigious society - so what? And more importantly, your alleged frivolous lawsuit is someone else's child being taken out of the country without permission. "Frivolous" lawsuits are taken care of, for example, by FRCP 11 aka a Rule 11 motion. If JAL believes that suit is "frivolous," it is free to file a Rule 11 motion. Other than that, the issue needs to be decided on the merits.

    Cheers
     
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  10. kellio
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    kellio Gold Member

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    Mexico requires a notarized statement from the other parent if you are traveling alone with your child. I always get one but in 20 trips with my daughter have never been asked for it.
     
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  11. JALPak
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    Should the kid be on the no fly list?
     
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  12. Bob Smolinsky
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    Only if they have been complaining about the TSA ;)
     
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  13. JALPak
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    But if the kid is flying on a Japanese passport, shouldn't it be the airlines' responsibility to collect their I-94? Unless the ex-wife showed something else to prove to JAL the kid is born in the US, a US citizen or has a green card :confused:
     
  14. Bob Smolinsky
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    Has nothing to do with the "standard" checks. As an expat with a a) ex wife from Euro land and b) new second wife from Euro land, plus almost 15 years abroad now, take my word for it, this happens quite often (both ways btw). Hence why a special check was introduced years ago......but I've never seen it asked form/implemented.
     
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  15. Dovster
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    I have both an American and an Israeli passport. When I enter the US I do so on my American passport and thus have no I-94. Very often, when I fly out of the States, Delta is not interested in seeing my U.S. passport but rather my Israeli one. (I could understand this if US citizens needed visas to enter Israel, but that is not the case.)
     
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  16. Bob Smolinsky
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    Really? They can demand that? Never happened to any of my 3 kids who have dual passports....
     
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  17. JALPak
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    Did you give them your Israeli passport info when you bought your ticket/did the online check-in?
     
  18. samh004
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    I see Japan hasn’t signed the Hague convention, so perhaps the US needs to invest in a system that stops a parent from taking a child to Japan, such as some sort of temporary no-fly list. If anything, I’d think a good place to start would be taking his case to the world court and suing Japan, not that it would be much easier than suing JAL, but they’re the ones at fault really.
     
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  19. QSG
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    The situation is complicated and involves and is not limited to the laws being completely different in Japan/US, the Japanese family registration system, and the aforementioned non-signing of the Hague convention. One of the most famous cases would be that of Debito !
     
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  20. Dovster
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    No, I always use my US passport. It has to be in their files in order for me to be allowed to enter the US without a visa (and, of course, as an American citizen I can not get a visa).
     
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  21. JALPak
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    How did they know you have an Israeli one then? :confused:
     
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  22. Dovster
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    My name is a Hebrew one, I began my itinerary in TLV, and my home address (as shown in my records) is in Israel. I would imagine that they are presuming from that information that I have an Israeli passport.

    I should point out that this is not true for all flights. Sometimes my US passport suffices. The funny thing is the passport game I have to play upon flying out of TLV to the States.

    1. For the security questioning before check-in I show my Israeli passport. This cuts down tremendously on the length of the questioning. Security then puts a sticker on the cover of the passport.

    2. For check in, Delta wants to see the passport with the sticker (hence, my Israeli one) and then my American passport (because I have no American visa in my Israeli passport).

    3. From there, I go to the x-ray machine and metal detector. They, too, want to see my Israeli passport because of the sticker.

    4. After that, I go to passport control. Normally, I would have to show my Israeli passport but because I have a biometric card which is supposed to get me through without showing a passport, I swipe the card in a machine. It takes my hand print and gives me a paper letting me through.

    5. I have to hand that paper to a police woman a few meters away and she sometimes also asks to see the passport which the card is supposed to keep me from having to present.

    From that point on, I can put away my passport until I arrive in the States where, of course, I have to show my American one.
     
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  23. Scottrick
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    After reading your dance with the authorities, it almost makes me wish we just had one card for international transit overseen by the UN or some other international organization that each member country could update with its own permissions. I was envious when traveling through Switzerland and saw that apparently all they have to show is their drivers license (I think that's what it was) when crossing borders.
     
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  24. Scottrick
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    My parents divorced when I was 10, and I never left California except for a few isolated cases. The one time we went to Mexico, my dad had to get a notarized agreement from my mother saying we were allowed to travel there, and the immigration authorities questioned us all very closely. I'm surprised that more countries don't do this (I think the greater risk was my mother, but that's another story...) You can tell now where I get my lust for travel after being deprived for so long. :rolleyes:

    On the other hand I don't think this is JAL's or any airline's responsibility. They provide transportation. I think the background checks are more for the passenger's sake to avoid getting over there and then being turned away because you didn't realize China or some other country requires a visa in addition to a passport (I had the opportunity once to observe a scene at SEA where one business pax tried to check in and did not know he needed a visa). Japanese immigration should be watching for children traveling with one parent, especially small children. And it's the US's responsibility to make sure Japan implements such a program.
     
  25. JALPak
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    But are there any requirements for ex-US flights when children travel with only 1 of their parents? If there is, JAL need to explain why they would let the ex-wife to bring the 2 year old to Japan without the Dad's approval.
     

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