United's new award chart side by side with Delta and American

Discussion in 'United Airlines | MileagePlus' started by MileCards, Nov 2, 2013.  |  Print Topic

  1. MileCards

    MileCards Silver Member

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  2. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    Please keep up the great work! Your UA 'devaluation' story by the numbers has been very valuable to those us who wish to determine calmly and objectively our best option forward amidst the generally frenzied and hyperbolic response to the change...
     
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  3. HubletUAFlyer

    HubletUAFlyer Gold Member

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    Great chart....puts everything in clear and easy to interpret perspective
     
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  4. ssullivan
    Original Member

    ssullivan Gold Member

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    +1

    I was traveling yesterday and couldn't really stop and look at all the details of the changes, and see how they compare to the competition. This really puts it in good perspective, particularly as I weigh my options for business travel going forward.
     
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  5. HubletUAFlyer

    HubletUAFlyer Gold Member

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    I'm going to be the first to admit, this will probably have little impact on my choice of United as my only carrier, after further review.
    While it's an obvious downgrade in award mileage value, by comparison to the other airlines I don't see a drastic difference.

    Now those suggestions of giving tiered discount levels to elites do sound interesting, but I doubt such concessions will ever occur
     
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  6. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    One person had already said that the impact of the change would be minimal for him...;)
     
  7. HubletUAFlyer

    HubletUAFlyer Gold Member

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    Ok..one of the first or perhaps one of the only
     
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  8. eponymous_coward
    Original Member

    eponymous_coward Gold Member

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    It's minimal because I don't send a lot of business UA's way. Truthfully, I am more likely to fly US (though every now and then Kayak says UA wins).

    SQ would be nice... but the miles expire in 3 years after earning. No bueno.
     
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  9. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    It's still appropriate to show solidarity and help our fellow travelers who were harmed by the change. If such egregious corporate misbehavior is accepted as a norm, sooner or later it will affect everyone.
     
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  10. Weatherboy

    Weatherboy Gold Member

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    So when will they rename United as Delta?
     
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  11. Newscience

    Newscience Gold Member

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    I suspect that for the Big Carriers to give tiered discounts to their elites would be an unprofitable way of doing business, and so won't likely occur. The various promotions that allow for the creation of large numbers of elites equates to those elite levels giving less value less than they once did. Of course, I'd certainly like to see this happen, but it just doesn't seem probable.
     
  12. MileCards

    MileCards Silver Member

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    Guess the fact they have reduced elite tier bonuses for flights indicates no intent to offer tier-based discounts.

    Would have thought maybe with Global Services members who are bringing significant profits something could be accommodated to avoid the broad based devaluation. Perhaps a systems issue as well. But again, they could have offered them a higher flight earn rate to offset if their intent was to shield them. Systems issues don't prevent that.
     
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  13. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    What you suggest would be appropriate if it weren't a pipe dream to believe that such "solidarity" would lead to the reversal of a major programmatic change like the one just announced. In addition, I am not even sure if that kind of "solidarity" is even possible considering the very real fact that the change does not affect everyone the same way. In fact, I am sure that most who have deplored and denounced this change have not yet taken the time to determine how they will be affected. Therefore, and as I had said from the git-go, a much more fruitful exercise would be for each person to carefully assess how this change is likely to affect them and, if they find it unacceptable, to evaluate their options, which they could put out here for comments or suggestions. In the first post of this thread, MileCards has done us a great service by "quantitatively" comparing how this change stacks up against the policies of the other two large domestic airlines. It is just a matter of using that information to one's particular travel pattern and circumstances. If people can share their determination of how this change will affect them, we might get a better sense for the validity of the claim that "if such egregious corporate misbehavior is accepted as a norm, sooner or later it will affect everyone." IME, such sharing, in fact, could lead to a more realistic and proactive form of "solidarity" that could be helpful, while also providing a model for reacting to changes to loyalty programs that everyone knows are inevitable but reacts to each time as if Armageddon had arrived.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
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  14. Newscience

    Newscience Gold Member

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    Good points all. But, I think that the MileCards comparison chart could also benefit from including/providing a line item/column contrast to USAirways, the remaining large airline that flies in the US and internationally. USAirways should be included in this chart, since, at least for the present moment, USAirways and United Airlines are still in the same air carrier network, Star Alliance. And more such comparisons are better than less, in the interests of a fair "qualitative comparison".
     
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  15. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    If we ask nicely, maybe Milecards, who did discuss US in the must-read text accompanying the tables, will grant your wish. However, since the merger became a real possibility, I have considered the days of US as a major domestic carrier as numbered. It might be better to use AA as the surrogate for the merged airline...
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
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  16. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    The fact that devaluations happened before doesn't make them acceptable or inevitable. The emotional reactions and hyperboles are a good indication that travelers still consider them a violation of fair business practices and a breach of contract law. Yes, travel purchases are contracts, including the rebate portions (aka miles). It's unprecedented that one party to a contract could retroactively reduce or eliminate a portion of the contract without agreement of the other party. If the airlines want to continue pretending that they are acting legally, they should include a clear disclosure of that important info in their marketing materials:
    "We have the right to make your miles worthless at any point in the future".

    While we're on the subject of proper disclosure, let's also include the following:
    "The award travel using your miles is not free, but has a dollar component. The dollar cost of your award ticket can be substantial, and in certain cases even exceed the entire cost of a paid ticket." One can argue that deceptively written contracts are invalid, and should be refunded. :eek:
     
  17. B1BomberVB

    B1BomberVB Silver Member

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    "We have the right to make your miles worthless at any point in the future"
    M7VO, the T&Cs of most airlines say almost that, but less bluntly. One air or hotel program even states that "earn" points does not mean what "earn" means in Standard English, but merely "collect points"!
     
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  18. Newscience

    Newscience Gold Member

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    Well, as the saying goes: "It isn't over until the fat lady sings". After a year or so of merger talk, the feds preventing an AA-US merger was a shock to the airlines and their customers. I know that the airlines are now in mediation talks with the feds, but I'd say that the AA-US merger is not a "done deal", unless you have other information.

    And I'm also hedging my bets, and also looking to beef up my miles with UA, in the event that US pulls out of *A.
     
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  19. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    I said "programmatic changes" and not just 'devaluation', but yes, they are inevitable [you cannot prove that they are not], and it is irrelevant whether or not they are acceptable...just see the MileagePlus terms & conditions below
    The generalization is unwarranted, in my view, because people who frequent forums such as these are a very small fraction of UA's annual pax load. In fact, it is this type of mindset and sense of entitlement that is responsible for the invariably over-the-top reaction to just about anything at TOBB, which I am here in large part to escape...
    You should take some time to read this fascinating electronic document that spells out the MileagePlus Rules and the conditions for participating:
    Based on the above, you have no case. Your only recourse, which no one can take away from you, is to jump the UA ship for another, which, in all likelihood, will have as many or more holes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
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  20. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    ..."United has the right to terminate the Program and/or the Premier Program or to change the Program Rules, regulations, benefits, conditions of participation or mileage levels, in whole or in part, at any time, with or without notice, even though changes may affect the value of the mileage or certificates already accumulated."
     
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  21. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    I had no doubt that T&C have all sorts of loopholes. The argument was that if miles are marketed as a major benefit of airline or credit card programs, then important material facts must be prominently featured in all marketing materials. A buyer must knowingly agree that he/she is buying a potentially worthless item. Just like the "ask your doctor" ads must include the possibility of dropping dead as a side 'benefit' of your purchase.
     
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  22. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    If you require that all reactions and opinions must conform to yours, then there's no escape. :p
    The patronizing attitude is uncalled for. As I said earlier, critical purchase issues should be stated upfront, not burried in "electronic documents".
     
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  23. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    You got that exactly backwards. Your requesting "solidarity" from me even though I felt otherwise was a request to conform to your "reactions and opinions". I advocated the opposite: Everyone should determine by themselves what the programmatic change means for them.
    Hmmm....:confused:
     
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  24. HaveMilesWillTravel
    Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    Indeed, while UA states in the MP T&C that accrued miles do not constitute property of the member, they are perfectly happy to SELL you miles. They use the term "Buy Miles". Where else can I buy something that then doesn't become my property and is subject to the seller manipulating or evaporating its value after the sale?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  25. colpuck
    Original Member

    colpuck Gold Member

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    After having spent three years in law school and with the fact I'm currently working in one has led me to the conclusion that few people on the Internet actually know what contract law means and mandates.

    Sent from a reasonably priced car.
     

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