UA Pax Fight over a Knee Defender Use

Discussion in 'United Airlines | MileagePlus' started by MX, Aug 26, 2014.  |  Print Topic

  1. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    A United flight was diverted when two E+ passengers started a fight over the seat recline.
     
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  2. 8MiHi

    8MiHi Silver Member

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    Good article. Even though I have some sympathy for his effort to protect his laptop, he loses it by not following the FA's instructions. Then she threw fuel on the fire. They both deserved the time out...
     
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  3. blackjack-21

    blackjack-21 Gold Member

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    No sympathy here, sorry.

    First of all, the chump with the laptop defender is sitting in a seating area with longer pitch then regular economy. UA doesn't allow the "Knee Defender" to be used on its aircraft, and whether or not he knew the rule on UA, he did not follow the FA's instructions to remove it at the time. Isn't not following a flight crew's instructions an FAA offence? The extra pitch would have allowed the jerk to use his laptop in his lap without the tray being down if he was so worried about damage from the reclining seat in front of him. It's called a "laptop" after all, and in this case the name suited it's positioning if warranted.

    The lady's throwing water on the jerk just added fuel to the fire and caused her also to be removed from the flight, although I can agree with her chagrin at not having the locking device taken off the seatback. She paid for a longer pitch reclining seat by choice and should have been allowed to recline in it.

    (I think there's another posting of this same story elsewhere on MP.)
     
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  4. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    It's a classic situation here. A strong entity makes many miserable, but they themselves are protected from the backlash by the system. So the frustrated peons squabble with each other instead.

    "Knee Defenders" are specifically intended to transfer misery to your fellow pax, so I'd have no sympathy for anyone who use them.
     
  5. kwai
    Original Member

    kwai Gold Member

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    No she didn't. E+ is extra leg room only and has nothing to do with recline.
     
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  6. dc3
    Original Member

    dc3 Silver Member

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    Yes, he broke the law/regulation of the FAA (and the United rule) to do what an FA tells him. He should have been arrested. That FA needs training!
     
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  7. Steve GadFly
    Original Member

    Steve GadFly Gold Member

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    I think it's 50/50 on whether she paid for it or it was auto-assigned when there was no more Y- left and she hadn't yet picked a seat. Either way, I agree with everyone's breakdown of who's at fault.
     
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  8. blackjack-21

    blackjack-21 Gold Member

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    So what's your point? Unless the lady unknowingly had bought a non-reclining seat, which it appears she didn't, she has every right to recline in the seat she'd paid for, or even if she hadn't paid for it and been moved to an E+ seat, why shouldn't she recline in it if she wanted to do so? An extra legroom seat becomes not entirely comfortable if you're in it sitting straight up for a long TATL or TPAC flight which is why most people choose to recline, if only a bit. In my opinion, it has extra legroom AND recline, as it should be, unless it's in the row directly in front of the exit row, and regardless of the length and time of the flight.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
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  9. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    The FA? The decision to not make an arrest was presumably that of law enforcement. From the article:

    "Chicago Police and TSA officers met the flight, spoke to the passengers — a man and a woman, both 48 — and "deemed it a customer service issue," Feinstein said. The TSA would not name the passengers."

    UA should ban both passengers from future UA travel and close their mileageplus accounts. They should further seriously consider pursuing civil charges to recover the cost of the diversion.
     
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  10. kwai
    Original Member

    kwai Gold Member

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    My point is simple: Your assertion was incorrect and still is. E+ simply has a 34-36" seat pitch and has no effective additional recline nor is it advertised as such (IIRC).

    This particular event was on a 3hr flight (+/-) not a TPAC/TATL. Which would you like to argue about? Because recline is indeed necessary on a long flight but, and this is the crux, but can be done in a respectful manner.

    And as I responded to you in the other thread, your apparent need to recline might conflict with my knee and then no one wins. Is it really all about you? Becuase thats the idea I'm getting.
     
  11. kwai
    Original Member

    kwai Gold Member

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    The latter suggestion would be a PR move UA would rue... even if they won it.
     
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  12. adambadam
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    adambadam Silver Member

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    Not that the guy has my sympathy, but we don't need to go around arresting every John and Jane who doesn't follow an FA. Let's be real here. This incident was stupidly blown out of proportion by multiple selfish individuals who were all too stubborn to behave like adults.
     
  13. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    I think the remaining passengers on the diverted flight would beg to differ.
     
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  14. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    What criteria do you suggest we apply to decide whether following a particular order by an FA needs to be followed?
     
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  15. blackjack-21

    blackjack-21 Gold Member

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    You're getting the wrong idea, as it's not just about me. We were, or so I thought, talking about an incident aboard a UA flight. Since you've mentioned the amount of pitch for the E+ seats versus the E- pitch, the additional pitch would even less intrude on someone sitting behind, then in a regular pitched seat in economy, of about a 31" or less pitch. And the incident mentioned wasn't about someone's knee in conflict was it, rather someone's prize computer which was, he thought, in danger of being impacted by the lady reclining her seat, even if ever so slightly. Since we really don't know if the lady attempted to recline her seat in a respectful manner or not, as she wasn't ever given the opportunity to recline it with the knee defender jammed into her seatback, we can't really guess how respectfully she would have done so, if at all. And in none of my above comments did I say anything about "additional" recline, just that they DO recline, although many airline's E+ sections seats do recline an inch or two more then the usual three or four inches in regular economy.

    But it nonetheless still doesn't take away her right to do so if she so desires and if said seat offers the user the ability to recline it, regardless of it being a three hour flight or an eight hour flight. And since you've also thought it was just about me, then yes, I too would expect to able to recline my seat slowly and with some warning to whoever is sitting behind me, if the seat I was in had the ability to recline should I want to do so, without first checking my watch to see if it's within the time limits for the length of flight you seem to define as non-reclineable times.

    The guy with the knee defender who refused to remove it, even after being told to do so and why by the FA, is still a jerk and much more, but this is a family website, so I'll leave it at that.
     
  16. WilliamQ

    WilliamQ Gold Member

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    Third thread on the same incident. But I left a rather lengthy explanation on the other thread http://milepoint.com/forums/threads...ver-reclining-seat-device.96798/#post-2424456.
    It does not "seems fair" but we are expected to manage our individual challenges without assuming the world will compromise to our problems especially when there are options available. This is all the more so if the issues are not about basic needs. At least I do not think air travel is considered one else there would be mandatory free trips for the needy.
     
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  17. WilliamQ

    WilliamQ Gold Member

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    A midair fight should be treated with all due seriousness as there are the safety of the other passengers to consider. Unless it was an outright ridiculous instruction which may put ones safety into (immediate) question, I would think compliance first, raise matter later is a smarter move. It is no different when an uniformed officer gives you an instruction.
     
  18. daninstl

    daninstl Gold Member

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    The reason this is a hot issue is because the airlines don't provide enough seating space. If they did this wouldn't be much of an issue. When I first heard about the situation I had mercy on the guy but when I found out it was in E+ with extra room that sympathy went down a lot.
     
  19. DealsRock

    DealsRock Silver Member

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    slightly off-topic ... does anyone know where I can get an armrest defender?

    I'd like to keep my half of the arm rest.
     
  20. Mapsmith
    Original Member

    Mapsmith Gold Member

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    So the Law Enforcement and TSA determined it was a "Customer Service issue". If so, maybe the Airline should be charged? They are the ones providing the (supposed) Customer Service.
     
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  21. kwai
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    kwai Gold Member

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    She threw water at him and he refused the FA's request. I think we can confidently say neither of these individuals would go about their routines with any concerns other than their own.
     
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  22. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    Airlines actually do provide enough space its called First and Business class :rolleyes:
    Have you by any chance heard of AAs MCRS and the reason it was discontinued?
     
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  23. Garp74

    Garp74 Gold Member

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    Question for ya @blackjack-21 : I'm 6'4". If I'm sitting behind you and your slowly recline your seat and it squishes my knees, and I then politely explain and ask you if you would please not recline into my knees, will you still keep it reclined? I hope you would accept the "bad luck" of being seated in front of me, and not torture my knees. It's the considerate thing to do, since I can't do anything about being tall and being seated behind you :(
     
  24. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    I bet you've been this tall for awhile and know by now where your body would comfortably fit. Is it appropriate to bother a person in front of you with your predicament every time you fly? When you politely explain your situation, do they have to reciprocate and explain that they might have a back problem and it's painful for them to accomodate your request?
     
  25. sfo1
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    sfo1 Silver Member

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    I can certainly appreciate how difficult it can be to be tall, thankfully I am only 5'8", but when I do recline my E+ seat I always do it very slowly, and generally don't go to the full recline unless it is an overnight flight. Have you ever thought of purchasing an exit row seat where you would have more leg room because usually the row in front has limited recline, it may be worth the dollars spent so that you can have a more enjoyable flight, or on many 737's the window seat in the 1st exit row is missing, so you would be able to purchase the exit row window seat and have no seat in front of you and really be able to stretch out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
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