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Discussion in 'United Airlines | MileagePlus' started by Rob, Jul 12, 2012.
100 737 MAX 9
Looks like the original report was accurate.
No delivery timeline I can find anywhere.
The original report said 100, no?
says MAX deliveries start in 2018 and NG deliveries in late 2013.
Original report was 100 MAX, which is what they ordered, in addition to the 50 ERs.
Strange that they published the report on the HUB but not on their press/media relations site.
100 737 jets ... https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/jakebeckman/status/222360502431526914
Not that it matters in any way.
And yes, it's weird... Why have two different stories and leave the important facts out of the PR?
2018 is sooo far away. Hard to get too excited now.
But it is exciting for Boeing and UA. I wonder what UA/Boeing will do about all those B757/767 that are being replaced worldwide with B737MAX9 and B787? At this point it seems likely that between the A320NEO and B737MAX the vast majority fo B757 will be replaced before 2020. The A350 and B787 are to have a similar effect on the B744, exacerbated by the B773 which is proving to be such a huge success, overshadowed by the new guys, but a very, very competitive aircraft. UA has not finished ordering IMO.
Boeing has pointed out the TATL 757s will not be replaced by the 737-MAX9, because it doesn't have the range. Those 757-200s that are in Flat Bed config were delivered between 1994 and 2000.
The domestic 757s were delivered between 1989-1993.
The 757-300s are newer.
I'm assuming that the 900ERs will replace the domestic 757s first, but not sure what's going to replace the TATL 757s.
I always feel like the 757 feels larger than the 737. Is the fuselage larger?
They will still probably have them before they get their 787's.
757-200: 155 ft length
737-900ER: 138 ft length
According to Boeing's website
But interior cabin width is identical.
Thanks. it's the interior cabin width that appears more spacious to me on the 757 than on a 737. Not sure what sort of optical illusion or magic is at work.
I think the fact that the cabin is divided at doors 2 gives the 757 a more spacious feel.
United Continental Holdings, Inc. has added a news release to its Investor Relations website.
Title: United Announces Order For 150 Boeing Aircraft
Date(s): 12-Jul-2012 10:01 AM
For a complete listing of our news releases, please click here
UNITED TO FURTHER MODERNIZE ITS FLEET AS IT RETIRES OLDER, LESS-EFFICIENT JETS
NORTH AMERICAN LAUNCH CUSTOMER FOR 737 MAX 9
CHICAGO, July 12, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- United Continental Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: UAL) and its wholly owned subsidiary, United Air Lines, Inc., today announced an order to purchase 150 narrowbody Boeing 737 aircraft. Under the new agreement, United will purchase 100 Boeing 737 MAX 9 aircraft and 50 Boeing 737-900ER aircraft for delivery between 2013 and 2022. These new aircraft will allow United to replace older, less-efficient aircraft to reduce fuel and operating costs, enhance the customer experience and maximize network opportunities. In addition, United is the North American launch customer for the 737 MAX 9, continuing its long tradition of launching new programs such as the 767, 777 and 787.
(B-roll video of United's 737 MAX 9 is available at http://bit.ly/NLP3ug. High-resolution images of United's 737 MAX 9 and 737-900ER are available at http://bit.ly/dCdS2s.)
"This order is a major step in building the world's leading airline, and we look forward to offering our customers the modern features and reliability of new Boeing airplanes, while also making our fleet more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly," said Jeff Smisek, United's President and CEO. "New aircraft deliveries support our flexible fleet plan, permitting us to tailor future capacity up or down, based on changes in demand or other market conditions."
"These new aircraft, combined with our new widebody aircraft already on order and our existing fuel-efficient aircraft, will solidify United's future fleet as one of the most efficient and environmentally responsible fleets among our global competitors," said Smisek.
United will begin taking delivery of 100 Boeing 737 MAX 9 aircraft in 2018. Boeing's newest family of airplanes will deliver a significant improvement in fuel efficiency in the single-aisle aircraft market. The 737 MAX 9 will be powered by the new CFM International LEAP-1B engine. The 737 MAX 9 is expected to achieve fuel burn and CO2 emission reductions of up to 13 percent compared to current 737 aircraft. United's 737 MAX fleet will feature the customer-pleasing Boeing Sky Interior, which creates a greater sense of space in the cabin and features an energy-efficient LED lighting system with different lighting and color schemes, a quieter cabin with improved ventilation, and larger overhead bins that accommodate additional carry-on bags.
United also plans to purchase 50 additional Boeing 737-900ER aircraft with deliveries beginning in late 2013. These next-generation models will be used primarily to replace older, less-efficient Boeing 757-200 aircraft that are flown domestically and are expected to burn up to 15 percent less fuel per seat than the aircraft they replace. CFM56-7B engines will power the aircraft. United was the North American launch customer for the 737-900ER when its predecessor placed its first order in 2006 and currently operates a fleet of 43 737-900ER aircraft.
The new 737-900ER will also feature the Boeing Sky Interior, which has been included on United's 737-900ER aircraft since United became the first U.S. airline to operate 737-900ER aircraft with the new interior in 2011.
Boeing is continuing to make alterations in MAX promises. Only a couple of days ago they announced the 737MAX7 would have range of 3800 NM making it only 100 miles less than the 757-200 (TATL for the 757 was originally ETOPS related not pure range IIRC). As time goes on we'll see some more range extensions for MAX that will make the TATL 757's all replaceable with much improved operating economics, I think.
We are also seeing continuing performance enhancements with aerodynamic and engine improvements for both the NEO and MAX. Both have the ability to get more efficiency and range than they're promising, but the technology risks and developments costs will rise as they do so.
This is really fun to watch!
From UA's press release:
" In addition, United is the North American launch customer for the 737 MAX 9, continuing its long tradition of launching new programs such as the 767, 777 and 787."
yes, but WN is the North American launch customer for the 737 MAX (-800 model).
Isn't the 737MAX7 significantly smaller than the 757?
The 757-200 has a place in UA's international fleet for the next 10-15 years. The newest -224 birds are only about 12-13 years old (younger than many 777s in the fleet from both sides) and they are cared for exceedingly well. When the time comes to replace the 757, it's not unreasonable to think that many markets will have matured to the point that a 787-8 is a viable solution or that Boeing will have an all-new type in the pipeline as a true 757 successor.
Is age the only factor, though? Is the 757 cost-effective on those routes for the next 10-15 years with presumably increasing oil prices?
yes it is, 126 typical pax for MAX7 vs 200 for 757-200 both typical 2-class. Even the MAX9 (3600NM or so vs 752- 4100 w/winglets)
The speculation I am hearing is that longer thinner routes are expected during the next ten years, especially for the US carriers, so even MAX7's are expected to make TATL flight connecting, say, Hartford to Brussels or Orlando to Brasilia (not TATL) where there will be reliable smaller loads that could be uneconomic for older 767/757. Clearly the larger load 757's and 767's will be replaced by 787 and smaller A350's, but all those smaller routes, especially following Open Skies and large airport congestion, are likely to absorb many longer range, lower capacity MAX and NEO aircraft.
Just think about the models of Copa, Southwest, Ryanair etc. These 737 operators are highly successful and are moving to longer range. They all are sticking to 737 almost entirely. Others are using A320's similarly. This argument suggests that UA and other will make similar moves during coming years.
If that is not what they're doing the why are airlines agitating for >3500 NM range variants of both MAX and NEO. I am certain we'll end out with rude shocks as we spend 5-6 hours in these little guys.
I assume that the 737 family will be replacing the A320's/A319's as well as the older B757's.
Still would like to see UA order the 77W (maybe instead of the A350) and in my dreams also the B748i
No, just look at what aircraft are being grounded now. There are fairly new ones being grounded.
Among others. The A340's are there entirely because of operating economics. Airbus did not imagine 320 minutes ETOPS. The MD-11 is a special case. But all those 744's and 767's are there because they already are too expensive to operate and the big rush of 787/350 have not even begun. Right now it is nearly impossible to lease a 737 classic because everyone wants the new ones.
I predict the TATL 757 will be gone totally ten years from now, replaced with MAX/NEO/787
They are such close buddies... maybe if Boeing promises to paint a special stripe on the side of the B748i they'll order a dozen or so
UA may have some routes to airports that are slot-constrained where they want the capacity of the 748i. NRT, FRA, LHR are all slot constrained, as are EWR and ORD. Some of the Chinese airports, too. It will make sense to replace the 744's with something, and I don't think the A350 matches the capacity of the 748. Plus, the new UA seems to heading toward Boeing exclusivity, as pmCO was. Just saying.
The 748 is not likely to be competitive in any serious way, but I am confident UA will end out with some 77W. Between the 77W and A350 not too many people would bet on the 77W, as good as it is now, because it will not be a long term solution. Stretches of the 787 and the A30-1000 will be the 744 replacements longer term for efficiency. If Boeing makes 748 as cheap for others as it did for LH and KE maybe they can slog a few more but the 748 is Boeings version of what the A340 was for Airbus IMO; too little, too late; too derivative; not efficient.
Boeing is selling a lot of 77W's right now. It's clearly the airplane that's killed the 747, and it's a more flexible product than the A330, because of its range. Boeing has announced a 77W derivated aka 77X.
It's too early to tell how 77W/77X will play out vs. A350. The 77X will have a lot of the same technology advances as the A350 in engines, use of composites, etc. It will stay competitive.
As to the 748, you are probably right that it will be crushed by 77W, 77X and A350.