UA domestic 752 fleet retired by end of 2015

Discussion in 'United Airlines | MileagePlus' started by Wandering Aramean, Jul 31, 2013.  |  Print Topic

  1. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    Messages:
    28,201
    Likes Received:
    61,716
    Status Points:
    20,020
    It was briefly mentioned in the quarterly earnings call thread but the total impact wasn't really discussed and I figured that perhaps the topic deserves its own thread. By the end of 2015 the domestic 757-200 fleet is expected to be retired. That's just over 70 planes being taken out of service.

    The replacement is the 737-900ER, an aircraft which can sortof do most of the same routes most of the time, but it can do so at a much lower cost. Savings estimates range from $1300/hour in operating cost differences ($5mm+ annually) to $2mm annually per plane, depending on which source you consider. That's a lot of cash saved. The downside is that the planes aren't quite the same, with some operational limitations and the fact that United isn't buying replacements at a 1:1 ratio. The current order book has only 48 new 73Es delivered in the same timeframe as the 752 retirements. It is not clear what will make up that missing capacity.

    The operations in a few years will definitely be interesting to watch.

    Read more:
    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...ll-outpace-replacement-737-deliveries-388856/
    http://boardingarea.com/thewanderingaramean/2013/07/united-gets-aggressive-with-757-200-retirements/
     
  2. Mackieman
    Original Member

    Mackieman Gold Member

    Messages:
    11,318
    Likes Received:
    38,530
    Status Points:
    16,520
    While the 752 is my favorite frame type, the sUA birds are old and not nearly as efficient. Since capacity continues to shrink, I suppose none of those moves are surprising. Any mention of the 753?
     
    Wandering Aramean likes this.
  3. ssullivan
    Original Member

    ssullivan Gold Member

    Messages:
    27,358
    Likes Received:
    60,275
    Status Points:
    20,020
    Given that the 753s are still relatively young airplanes, and have a lot more seats to spread similar operating costs across, and that UA has recently made some interior enhancements to the fleet (DirecTV and power), I'm guessing they'll keep them around. They've also put the 753 into service as a replacement for 752s and domestic 763s on West Coast-Hawaii routes.
     
    LETTERBOY, desamo and Mackieman like this.
  4. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    Messages:
    28,201
    Likes Received:
    61,716
    Status Points:
    20,020
    The 753s were explicitly mentioned as not being retired.
     
  5. genemk2

    genemk2 Gold Member

    Messages:
    5,829
    Likes Received:
    14,570
    Status Points:
    11,070
    The study that WA linked to in his article mentioned that operating costs for the 753 are only $7/hour more than the 752.
     
  6. rggale
    Original Member

    rggale Gold Member

    Messages:
    14,563
    Likes Received:
    31,668
    Status Points:
    16,520
    The retirement of domestic 752s is very bittersweet...old dogs with spotty maintenance history that keeps creeping up on them, dated interiors, but 24 F seats and 2L boarding are awesome.
     
    Gtitan, Flyer1976, guberif and 6 others like this.
  7. redtailshark

    redtailshark Silver Member

    Messages:
    1,041
    Likes Received:
    875
    Status Points:
    895

    Yes it has the same engines as -200 series so the DOC could not be significantly different. The anteater is the most efficient seat-mile cost single-aisle machine available. The beancounters love it. Passengers and many crew however do not. Boarding/disembarkation takes longer than any other machines. If you're in 48E it will totally suck, you can't make your connection. For crew, serving beverages/snacks along that narrow aisle, and having to run back to the galley past the numerous pax in line for the bathroom....it's a chore. And then there's the lack of comfort during turb. The torsional flexion of the machine is quite different than the 752 which is so stiff it simply flogs you. The anteater's gyrations can make you queasy on short final to OGG at mean-plus windspeed conditions in the Maui valley....

    I did not like this machine in redtail guise. It would however have been very cheap to charter :)

    sUA 752, true, it's old, dingy and noisy...but 24F seats, no tech stops transcon - unlike 739 - and the chance to ride with Captains Denny or Molly.... a sort-of-taste of the PanAm ghosts onboard UA :D
     
    rggale, avflyer and genemk2 like this.
  8. avflyer
    Original Member

    avflyer Silver Member

    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    597
    Status Points:
    720
    Don't they have 739 max's and 321 neos on order? Not that either would replace a 752, but they would add to that capacity shortfall as missions are similar? Just researched this deal. the 739 max doesn't start deliveries until 2018 and they did not order any neo's (thought they did). Wow, United is really shrinking it's single aisle capacity. I wonder if an RJ145 can be ETOPS rated........:confused:
     
    rggale likes this.
  9. avflyer
    Original Member

    avflyer Silver Member

    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    597
    Status Points:
    720
    The anteater? Never heard that one...any other nicknames for popular commercial aircraft? I have heard the 767 called the "Guppy", but that's it for me. If there aren't any maybe we can start a contest or something...I get to name the RJs.
     
  10. Max M

    Max M Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    2,160
    Status Points:
    1,245
    Surprised that Allegiant Air didn't make an offer before FedEx to bolster its HNL routes.
     
  11. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    Messages:
    28,201
    Likes Received:
    61,716
    Status Points:
    20,020
    Allegiant hasn't done particularly well on the routes anyways; not so sure they're wanting to expand on them. Plus, there are plenty to go around as FedEx is only taking 30 as of right now.
     
    rggale likes this.
  12. Seacarl
    Original Member

    Seacarl Gold Member

    Messages:
    10,521
    Likes Received:
    11,372
    Status Points:
    16,520
    Did UA give any capacity guidance at the same time? There's a pretty significant capacity difference between 70 752's and 48 73E's. Or is UA also taking deliveries of 738's at the same time? Or could there be some other timing difference going on? Unless they bring more widebodies to domestic service, there will be 22 190-seat planes missing from the schedule
     
  13. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    Messages:
    28,201
    Likes Received:
    61,716
    Status Points:
    20,020
    The guidance they gave is that they expect the fleet numbers to remain roughly even so there does seem to be something missing. We just don't know what it is.
     
    Seacarl likes this.
  14. Hartmann
    Original Member

    Hartmann Gold Member

    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    14,556
    Status Points:
    14,520

    I smell a rise in RASM and not from an increase in flyers. ;) :p
     
  15. davef139

    davef139 Gold Member

    Messages:
    5,361
    Likes Received:
    4,958
    Status Points:
    3,120
    my feeling is the 175s will help fill the void, skywest has their deliveries through 2015.. thats 30 planes plus whatever UA gets, with ORD opening new runways in Oct, higher frequencies can happen without as much delay problems also.
     
    rggale likes this.
  16. ssullivan
    Original Member

    ssullivan Gold Member

    Messages:
    27,358
    Likes Received:
    60,275
    Status Points:
    20,020
    Pending order for 30 748s configured for domestic use. ;)
     
  17. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    Messages:
    28,201
    Likes Received:
    61,716
    Status Points:
    20,020
    The E75s will sortof help, but not completely.

    They are coming in and replacing E45s/CR2s so there are already some retirements associated with bringing them on board IIRC. And while they can alleviate the pressures on certain routes (I can see BOS-ORD/IAD/EWR going all E75) and freeing up some larger planes to do longer runs there will still be a significant capacity/ASM loss without another move.
     
  18. Seacarl
    Original Member

    Seacarl Gold Member

    Messages:
    10,521
    Likes Received:
    11,372
    Status Points:
    16,520
    Also, doesn't the pilot agreement set some kind of ratio between mainline and RJ aircraft? Meaning they really cannot shrink mainline while increasing RJ fleet. In fact the bigger RJ's are replacing CR2's in a ratio that keeps seat size fixed, I think, so 2 big planes mean 3 CR2's leaving. Or am I confusing the DL agreement?
     
  19. avflyer
    Original Member

    avflyer Silver Member

    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    597
    Status Points:
    720

    :) I couldn't find a "laughing hysterically" smiley....
     
    meFIRST likes this.
  20. eponymous_coward
    Original Member

    eponymous_coward Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,901
    Likes Received:
    2,971
    Status Points:
    1,470
    Maybe B gives them a deal on some 738s as compensation for Dreamliner Flambé?
     
    miles and smiles likes this.
  21. EWR764
    Original Member

    EWR764 Silver Member

    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    580
    Status Points:
    670
    The 737 was always the Guppy, especially the short-body Classics. A lot of UAL pilots still refer to the 737 as Guppies.
     
    Flyer1976 and Wandering Aramean like this.
  22. radonc1951

    radonc1951 Gold Member

    Messages:
    5,112
    Likes Received:
    11,602
    Status Points:
    11,070
    I don't think the E-75s would be bad if they put in some sort of IFE or internet connection. Was or is that in the cards?
     
  23. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    Messages:
    28,201
    Likes Received:
    61,716
    Status Points:
    20,020
    DL already has gogo on theirs. UA has nothing and no announced plans.
     
  24. JetsettingEric
    Original Member

    JetsettingEric Silver Member

    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    705
    Status Points:
    695
    Will definitely miss the 752. Love the ps configuration. On the regular configuration the phones in the center console bring back a different age of flying.

    But 737-900ER replacing the 752 on domestic runs such as LGA-DEN makes a ton of sense for a financial standpoint. Just very sad.
     
  25. Mackieman
    Original Member

    Mackieman Gold Member

    Messages:
    11,318
    Likes Received:
    38,530
    Status Points:
    16,520
    I don't think the ps birds are going anywhere. It's the much older domestic sUA 752s that are affected.
     

Share This Page