The "J" Project Rumor.

Discussion in 'United Airlines | MileagePlus' started by VVanderlust, Jul 15, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. VVanderlust

    VVanderlust Silver Member

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    Not sure how the board feels about posting rumors - but since this is my first one I will give it a go and see what kind of reaction I get.

    The J-Project - Revamp of UA's ps service:
    Was speaking with an acquaintance who works at the United HQ in ORD and was trying to use my best interogation techniques to find out about product changes (Apologies but I was not carrying my water board with me).

    There is a PS re-vamp underway called the "J" project. She would not disclose any details, but said that I would be very pleased. From the project name, I am guessing that First will be pulled off the ps planes and lie-flat seats will be installed and the number increased b/c of the new real estate available. But that is just my guess. There might be some contractual obligations with the folks in Hollywood that would make my thinking incorrect and would not make sense from what is posted below.

    3 Cabin vs. 2 Cabin - Nothing surprising here.
    Was also told that the plan regarding 3-cabin vs. 2-cabin configs is to put UA's 3-cabin planes on any route that a competitor flew 3 cabin. (No surprise here, and I think we all know what those routes are.) But she did point out that it would not be on every flight on a route with multiple flights per day.

    Be interesting to see if any of this is true.
     
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  2. sobore
    Original Member

    sobore Gold Member

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    The rumor I heard is all P.S. flights will be outsourced to Doug and Linda Hoffman of Woodlawn IN.
    Will report back once confirmed. :p

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. colpuck
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    colpuck Gold Member

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    I lol'd
     
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  4. mherdeg
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    mherdeg Silver Member

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    Yeah, I wondered about the claim that "the Screen Actors Guild agreement no long requires working actors to travel in First, so UA has lost a lot of revenue from paid F on LAX-JFK flights."

    Here's the "Summary of the Agreement for the 2011 Screen Actor Guild Basic and Television Agreements and the 2011 AFTRA Exhibit A to the Network Television Code":

    It sounds like that might be a change from the past. I guess it's possible that the loss of the entertainment industry's business is enough to make p.s. F unprofitable.

    The other air travel stuff is boring,

     
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  5. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    It is going to be the CO BF seats nose to window exit. E+ and E- after that in a ratio that I'm not certain of.
     
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  6. I just wish they would add more PS flights to other cities.
     
  7. Hartmann
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    Hartmann Gold Member

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    Will WiFi stay?
     
  8. AdamNYC

    AdamNYC Active Member

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    I flew UA ps LAX-JFK yesterday morning and overheard two fa's saying "they're gonna replace these with 737's"
     
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  9. Mackieman
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    Mackieman Gold Member

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    I don't think there's been any indication of that.
     
  10. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    Dunno. I have heard rumblings that the LiveTV system will, in fact, grow beyond the CO implementation and that can include their internet service. The only flaw in that logic is that there hasn't been a 752 with LiveTV yet so no idea how that would play out.
     
  11. NYBanker
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    NYBanker Gold Member

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    The reason they don't is simple. There aren't too many markets/city pairs where people/companies will pay $5,000 for a domestic round-trip J ticket. JFK-LAX/SFO are two. IAD and MIA get close...but don't get to where JFK is in aggregate.
     
  12. NYBanker
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    NYBanker Gold Member

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    Just because SAG has (or had) and F requirement doesn't require UA to offer it.

    SAG's papers now require the productions to pay for J service if F isn't available. This change certainly didn't help the profitability of the F cabins. But, at $6k a round trip right now, even half full, that's still a good yield.

    If an actor/actress wanted F, they could connect in ORD I guess.

    * * * *​

    I still get a kick how what UA offers as F is what SQ is phasing out as J...
     
  13. NYBanker
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    NYBanker Gold Member

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    Is this a 727? (I'm guessing based on the distance from the cockpit windows to door 1R.)
     
  14. chitownflyer
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    chitownflyer Silver Member

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    ROTFLMAO.:D
     
  15. SS255
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    SS255 Silver Member

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    Or fly AA.
     
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  16. SS255
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    SS255 Silver Member

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    In that case, I wonder if the p.s. routes will become UDU-eligible?
     
  17. Morsel
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    Morsel Active Member

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    Any chance we'd see EWR-SFO/LAX get in on this?
     
  18. NYBanker
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    NYBanker Gold Member

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    This is a very good question. UA has such limited operations out of JFK, there would be a number of benefits to simply moving the existing services to EWR.

    I suspect UA gains a number things from running this service from JFK:
    1. there is a moderate amount of *A connection traffic at JFK that isn't going through EWR that helps feed these flights,
    2. It keeps UA in the market for pax from Long Island and CT...few of which would optionally go to Jersey if alternatives were available at JFK. For those in Jersey, they don't really have a choice, it's basically just UA/CO for them...so UA/CO is probably thinking they don't need to offer them a premium
    3. At least some Angelenos might have a preference for JFK service (going to CT or LI, or just have a negative few towards Jersey)
    4. UA is getting a higher fare out of JFK. Assessing a number of random days in August, there is a $500 premium in UA's fares for JFK J service over EWR F service (and a multi-thousand dollar premium for JFK F service).
    UA has given up [all] trans-oceanic service from JFK. They paid a $400mm for the LHR routes from Pan Am. They've since halted the JFK service and the SEA service, as well as the onward services from London. Despite the four points above, I'd wager UA moves the ps service to EWR within 5 years.
     
  19. NYBanker
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    NYBanker Gold Member

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    Doubtful. For UA/AA, these routes offer some of the highest proportion of people actually paying (or their companies) for the premium cabin seats. If they did, invariably they'd adopt a DL-style model.

    • AA still offers segment upgrades on these routes...but they're not unlimited, except for us EXPs, so it's a bit of a different dynamic.
    • DL offers UDUs, but basically doesn't release upgrade seats till 30 minutes prior to departure (they simply don't release any upgrade inventory in advance). So, while DL does offer upgrades, they're basically not confirm-able, even for DMs and PMs.
    I recall when UA ran 767s on this route. You could even use segments to upgrade from J to F. That was great.
     
  20. NYBanker
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    NYBanker Gold Member

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    That's what I do!
     
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  21. Seacarl
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    Seacarl Gold Member

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    Do you think they will maintain a special 757-200 subfleet for p.s. or will they standardize on a 757-200 fleet which will operate both p.s. service and transatlantic service? There are likely operational benefits to standardization of the fleet. 16 BF seats is likely too few for many markets, and removing some seats from international flights might improve range enough to eliminate the occasional westbound fuel stops.

    Unlikely. CO doesn't provide free upgrades on their Hawaii flights which offer BF

    I believe the market that pays for BF prefers JFK for access to NYC - though really the distance and travel time to/from Manhattan isn't much different. Terminal 7 at JFK which is UA uses is mostly peaceful and quick through security compared to the sometimes bus terminal-like feel of EWR terminal C. I suppose they could operate some p.s. service out of the A gates that UA uses, though with Southwest in there the security lines are likely to get longer.

    For the market that p.s. wants to serve, they need to stay at JFK. UA/CO do need to figure out their JFK terminal strategy. It might make some sense to make Terminal 1 into a Star Alliance terminal. And just like B6 offers some service from all 3 NY-area airports, UA may want to have some limited additional service from JFK for presence - certainly the SFO & LAX flights, but perhaps also an LHR & NRT flight.
     
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  22. I would have thought ORD might have had enough of a market.
     
  23. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    Dedicated fleet. There are very few routes that really need more than the 16 BF seats on a regular basis.


    Seriously?? You apparently don't spend time in bus terminals. EWR A or B, perhaps, but not C. C has better dining and retail options than JFK T7 by a long way. Higher ceilings, too.
     
  24. NYBanker
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    NYBanker Gold Member

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    They bought these from Pan Am...in a $1.15 billion purchase. (This included service rights from other cities in addition to JFK.) They shut JFK services some time ago.

    I suspect JFK-LHR is the highest traffic TATL route there is. UA wasn't competitive, imho.
     
  25. NYBanker
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    NYBanker Gold Member

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    I picked some random dates to look at fares, and while not inexpensive, this route seems to fare out at a significantly lower price than the JFK (or even EWR) routes in the forward cabin (comparing ORD F to JFK J).
     

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