The craziness over UG space

Discussion in 'Air Canada | Aeroplan' started by guinnessxyz, May 6, 2013.  |  Print Topic

  1. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-...iority-ac-employees-vs-status-passengers.html

    Someone suggested I should drop my usual practice of avoiding another board and read this thread about AC and upgrades. It continues to reinforce the mindset of the original reader, who passed this on, and myself that people want it all for nothing and will say anything to make their case look good even though there is not an ounce of truth or logic to their piece.

    Unless people pay for something then it is free. Whether via an upgrade cert or an opup its still free.

    I read about people supposedly getting opups on TG and ANA in Asia. I've been on very full flights in Asia and on those same airlines travelling with people who live in the region and they comment about how very strict both airlines are with opups. They manage their inventory very well and are only in the habit of selling last minute upgrades. Of course every rule has an exception, but I digress.
    An AC SD tells his side of the story and people accuse him of being a paid shill when he has done nothing but help people on line for years on his own time

    Sad that such ignorance permeates the internet and tries to pass for factual behaviour.
     
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  2. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed Gold Member

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    This is wrong on both sides of the statement. Airlines carry miles, upgrade instruments, etc. as liabilities on their balance sheets. They have financial value to the airline, and they're a form of financial rebate to the customer, so they have value to the customer as well.

    Those perceived values certainly differ, but it's absolutely not free. While there may be no cash changing hands for a specific upgrade, the miles or instruments used (even if the instrument is UDU, earned by enough spend to reach a given status level) are the 'currency' involved and are recognized by both sides as having the value the upgrade would otherwise 'cost.' In fact, we see threads here and there all the time comparing the cash cost to upgrade vs. the perceived or computed value of a given upgrade instrument to determine the most financially effective means of upgrading.

    Op-ups are the one rare instance where it is in fact free to the customer.
     
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  3. AC does no such thing with their FF rewards program. It is handled by Aeroplan in an arms length relationship. AC buys points from them and they buy flights from the airline or their star alliance partners directly. AC pays cash for the points they buy.
    Upgrade cert "liabilities" appear no where on their balance sheet and are strictly a recalobale benefit the airline provides to its FF community.
     
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  4. LETTERBOY
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    LETTERBOY Gold Member

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    This is something that's all too common in this day and age, and it's not limited to people whining about upgrades. Frankly, I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for people whining that they didn't get an upgrade. I don't care if what elite status level you are with the airline. I don't care that a non-rev is sitting in F and you're not. I don't care how much business you give the airline. If you want to sit in F, buy an F ticket, or redeem miles for an F ticket. Otherwise, take your seat in coach and get on with your life.
     
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  5. MSPeconomist
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    MSPeconomist Gold Member

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    IMO it depends very much on the airline's FF program and especially its published benefits. If customers are promised upgrades under certain circumstances, such as elites being upgraded before nonrevs, then the carrier has an obligation to honor that commitment. People are right to be upset when shenanigans occur. It's not just a matter of WFBF (want first buy first).
     
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  6. viguera
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    viguera Gold Member

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    I haven't had the time (and quite frankly don't have the inclination) to sift through the pages of posts over at FT, but the way I understand it the OP was "hoping" for an upgrade based solely on status, and wasn't using an instrument to be upgraded.

    As I understand it (and maybe I'm wrong), when this is the case AC will not bump a non-rev to the rear to move a revenue passenger to the front, regardless of their status. I think they'd even let the seat fly empty than hand it out for "free"
     
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  7. MSPeconomist
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    MSPeconomist Gold Member

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    In that particular case, apparently yes. Also a carrier won't necessarily give an empty premium seat to someone, even if elite, if this isn't a program feature and OPUPs aren't needed, regardless of whether doing so would mean moving a nonrev back to coach or not.

    I was responding to the post I quoted, where it was asserted that we should always just settle for coach except when purchasing FC tickets.
     
  8. viguera
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    viguera Gold Member

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    Understood.

    One thing I noticed also is that there's A LOT of animosity towards NRSAs over at FT. I think the crowd here is certainly more civilized -- although the topic doesn't come up as often -- but over there there's some serious bile. :)
     
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  9. MSPeconomist
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    MSPeconomist Gold Member

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    I think many FFers have over the years been victims of nonrev shenanigans in the sense of losing upgrades to which the elite was properly entitled or have suffered through nonrev party flights having paid for business or FC in order to rest and work well on board. Of course there's some resentment as a result of such experiences.
     
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  10. viguera
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    viguera Gold Member

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    Probably not undue resentment, I'm sure -- although maybe I'm not taking the funky routes because I have yet to be on a party flight :)
     
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  11. That's been the modus operandi over there for years. It seems to breed on its past and attracts whom I would call serial "whiners" a moniker that is not well liked by board management.
     
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  12. tomh009
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    tomh009 Gold Member

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    And that's really why I'm here and not over there.
     
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  13. Canadi>n
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    Canadi>n Gold Member

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    But their posts are still worth bringing over here?
     
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  14. Stephan

    Stephan Silver Member

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    Well, apparently without topics brought over from TOB one wouldn't have much to read over here worth discussing, since it is all good all the time, no?.
     
  15. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed Gold Member

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    It does cut down on the noise, leaving more space and time dedicated to information. I consider that a benefit.

    Sent from my iPhone using milepoint
     
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  16. Of course. When the issue merits it and as another poster stated here limited amounts of that noise allow this place to be INFORMATIVE. My point was to show how ill infomed people are by not using facts and simply make noise.
    If people think upgrades are getting hard to come by on AC wait until the 787's come along next year with only 20 J seats in the front cabin. They will also have premium Y seats.

    BTW I note you are no longer part of the FT family nor do you fly with AC any longer but keep posting here which could be helpful and informative.
     
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  17. southender
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    southender Silver Member

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    I have absolutely no sympathy for FF'ers who haven't figured out how to get their upgrade in advance - play the game to win or stay home.
     
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  18. You got it. Play to win;its a competitive world out there.
     
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  19. mevlannen
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    mevlannen Silver Member

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    Op-ups are nice, but in our lived experience, rare. Four so-far this year, the most recent being on a short-haul run where the SD (upon receiving our drink order) said, "oh, yes, we heard about you! the Scotch Lady!".

    Secret hint? Be polite to agents. Then the reward is the cup of black coffee with the double shot of Scotch once reaching crusing altitude.
     
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  20. mevlannen
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    mevlannen Silver Member

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    Okay, I correct myself: now seven op-ups for the year, the most recent one being for 'weight and balance' issues, where I found myself to be the sole occupant of the J cabin on a late-night YVR>YEG hop.

    Nice chat with the SD about gardening, and (of course) my should-be-trademarked Scotch-in-coffee. ^_^
     
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  21. tomh009
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    tomh009 Gold Member

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    I think I'm better than 50% for op-ups on my YYZ-EWR-YYZ route since March, though I haven't actually counted them. Got upgraded both ways again this week. January/February there are few op-ups to be had though as everyone is burning through their eUpgrade credits.
     
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  22. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed Gold Member

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    Wait, was this a true op-up or just a status upgrade?
     
  23. tomh009
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    tomh009 Gold Member

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    Op-up. AC doesn't do automatic upgrades based on status. You can pay for an upgrade at check-in, get one using eUpgrade credits -- or just maybe get an unsolicited op-up.
     
  24. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed Gold Member

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    Nice!
     
  25. tomh009
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    tomh009 Gold Member

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    Op-up tonight (again) on a delayed (again) flight from EWR. I think this may be five op-ups in a row ...
     
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