Scotland Independence Vote Looms; How Will Travel be Affected?

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Travel' started by uggboy, Sep 9, 2014.  |  Print Topic

  1. uggboy
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    Scotland Independence Vote Looms; How Will Travel be Affected?

     
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  2. Flyer1976
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    Personally, I'm all for independence however the UK is touting that it won't protect Scotland from terrorism which is :rolleyes: .
     
  3. lapointdm

    lapointdm Silver Member

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    I'm not sure there would be too many immediate impacts, but it could certainly lead to passport requirements, perhaps different taxes, probably a lot of confusion with travelers about what country they are in... Should be interesting.
     
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  4. anileze

    anileze Gold Member

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    This vote allows non-scots who are residents i.e English to vote, but not scots who do not live in Scotland. Rather strange.
     
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  5. Mapsmith
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    Mapsmith Gold Member

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    I think the big problem will be currency. I have read that Scotland may go to the Euro. But what about the meantime? Since there are Scots Pounds based on the English Pound, what will happen. Will there be a fee for entrance?

    To say nothing of the price of Whisky?????
     
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  6. LarryInNYC

    LarryInNYC Gold Member

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    No more haggis in business on BA, I imagine.
     
  7. anileze

    anileze Gold Member

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    how about a dram of single malt as a unit measure for currency. And a shelf full of of single malts to determine the fluctuation of the scottish currents. The currency units would be called a dram, a shot, a double shot, A new york straight-up pour, a Double and finally on to note class as nip, up to 1 liter bottle.

    Hey if we can have bitcoins, this is much better :)
     
  8. Mapsmith
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    But which Whisky would be the benchmark?
     
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  9. superscot
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    OK. Seriously folks, the real answer is that nobody knows. As I see it, the main issues that would impact travel are:

    Currency: the Scottish National Party says that in the event of a Yes vote, it would enter into a formal currency union with the Rest of the UK. All three main UK parties say that that will not happen. A possible fallback position is that Scotland would use some form of Sterlingisation - using the Pound Sterling in the same way as Panama uses the US Dollar. There are big questions about the feasibility of this in that a) an independent Scotland would be basically ceding fiscal policy control to a foreign country; and b) Scotland would have to build up massive reserves (estimated at around 100% of GDP) to provide a buffer. So, an independent Scotland might or might not continue to use Sterling. The alternatives would be a new currency or having to join the Euro (see below).

    Borders. At present, the UIK, including Scotland, has open borders with Ireland but has opted out of the European Schengen agreement which gives open boders between the signatory countries. Another one of the big unknowns for an independent Scotland is whether it would automatically become an EU member, inheriting the same rights and opt-outs as the UK currently enjoys. If so, no change: open borders with the rest of the UK and Ireland, but border controls between Scotland and the rest of Europe. However, the majority of legal opinion and, certainly, the stated position of the President of the EC and of the President of Spain is that Scotland would be forced to reappply as a new member. All other new member states have to sign up to Schengen and to adopt the Euro (when certain economic criteria are met). So, Scotland, as a new member state, could have open borders with the rest of Europe, but the knock-on effect of this would be border controls between Scotland and England. (The SNP's stated aim of encouraging immigration is at odds the the Rest of the UK; another reason why boder controls between Scotland and RofUK might be needed).

    Immigration rules for visitors from the rest of the world. I doubt whether anybody has even considered this question yet. However, given the value of tourism to the Scottish economy, it seems very unlikely that a Scottish government would do anything to jeapordise these revenues.

    Air Passenger Duty. I'm pretty suure that I read somewhere that an independent Scotland would abolish/reduce APD.

    Cost of Living in Scotland. Again the jury is out on this one. At the end of the day, a lot will depend on whether Scotland is able to adopt the Pound Sterling or a currency tied to it. The SNP says that Scotland would be amongst the richest nations in Europe; other views say that the draft budgets rely on a vastly over-estimated income from oil; if these revenues do not materialise and if we see an exodus of banking jobs to the rest of the UK, Scotland may turn into a very highly taxed place to live and visit.

    Whatever happens, Scotland will still be a great place to travel to and visit.
     
  10. Gardyloo
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    I was mulling over the prospects of a Scottish flag-carrier airline. Anyone who travels to frequently to Scotland from the west side of the Atlantic is always facing a dilemma - use one of the very few nonstop services into GLA or EDI, or else use London Airways and connect someplace. Major PITA.

    Now don't laugh. Or, okay, laugh. What about some sort of expansion/deal with Aer Lingus? EI has already gone "international" with its bases at BFS and LGW, and some sort of public corporate investment from Scotland, a la the reduced Irish government's ownership stake (now down to 25%?) might add some capital and help EI fend off the inevitable next assault from Ryanair. Common ownership of "flag" airlines isn't exactly new, viz. IAG, Lufthansa/Swiss, et al.

    Scottish airports' access to the continent is already pretty good, but all served by foreign flag carriers - KLM, Lufthansa, et al. Having a "domestic" carrier besides easyJet serving major European airports from GLA or EDI might be a useful market niche, and needless to say more nonstops from Scotland to the US and Canada would be hugely welcome. Granted, traffic is never going to be huge numbers, but I suspect that a lot of corporate travel to/from Scotland and North America would jump at the prospects of avoiding LHR, maybe even avoiding UK APD...

    Aer Alba? Scotair? Just thinking...
     
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  11. violist
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    violist Gold Member

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    Haggis airlines - buy yur-r-r-r own gas.
     
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  12. Mapsmith
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    Just want to thank Superscot for a concise explanation of some of the possible difficulties.

    (Although I still like the idea of using Whisky for currency. But it could lead to being broke on Sunday mornings!!!)
     
  13. redtailshark

    redtailshark Silver Member

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    Re: currency, the Panama analogue is interesting and apposite...however, if you've visited Panama you will have seen the contradictory consequences of this strategy (higher prices for basic necessities relative to local incomes, just walk around the grocery stores and see for yourself; a relatively more favorable environment for multinational and international investors supported by stable/guaranteed currency e.g. Trump Towers PTY; and so on).

    APD: I believe the SNP manifesto referenced an immediate 50% reduction in APD in the event of a YES vote (even Air Leprechaun could be tempted to move under those conditions).

    I await the poll results from the desert shark tank with both professional and personal interest.

    Last year, my colleagues and collaborators hosted an open forum on Scottish Independence. The objectives were to identify and probe issues of significance, without being steered by pro- or anti-nationalist sentiment. The meeting agenda was developed over a three month period in collaboration with other researchers including the Five Million Questions project. We hosted the event at an auditorum in Perth on June 3rd. We gathered a lot of data during the three-hour event, and the slide summary shows only the data that our colleagues regarded as most interesting.

    Media blog by journalist David Torrance here:

    http://fivemillionquestions.org/blo...uestions-and-the-university-of-the-third-age/

    Slideshare overview summary of key findings here:

    http://www.slideshare.net/keironbailey/scottish-independenceforum3june13summaryslides

    You can follow the slideshare to another presentation which walks through all of the questions posed by the team. This will give you an idea of the sequence of the meeting.

    Small Youtube video here:



    Notable data included:

    1. The strong level of support for a written constitution.
    2. The sources of information - admittedly this group consisted mainly of retired folks, but the point being, reliance on social media as an
    information dissemination strategy misses certain groups.
    3. The relatively strong coupling between participants' voting intentions in the 2014 referendum and the expected results of the 2015
    UK National election. This form was nonpartisan and therefore we did not ask them to elaborate on this connection.
    4. The lack of confidence in hard information being provided on many of these questions prior to the September 2014 poll. Only 15%
    believed that the majority of these questions would be answered prior to that time.
    5.The performance of the protocol. Our mean citizen satisfaction score was 8.3 on a normalized 10-point scale (1= worst, 10=best). This is despite the controversial nature of the issue and the strength of various views, some directly opposed. The performance score matches our track record for public events in the United States over the past fifteen years. We know it's possible to host such discussions in a gaming-resistant way, and to ensure an open environment for collective evaluation.

    One problem is, these type of events are rarely hosted by those who are not invested in steering attendees or observers towards specific outcomes, sometimes tacitly. There are numerous others. It's unfortunate that the invested powers rarely want to ask such questions or to pay regard to citizen-sourced data.
     
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  14. Gargoyle
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    England will declare Haggis to be a weapon of mass destruction and demand a coalition of gourmands invade Scotland to ensure that all stockpiles are safely deactivated.
     
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  15. Gargoyle
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    A young Scottish boy is sent to boarding school in England. A month later his mother calls up from the Highlands and asks how he is faring.

    "Well," he says, "the classes and teachers are fine, but I have a problem with my neighbors in the adjoining rooms in the dormitory. Every night the one on the right screams without letup, and the one on the left, just bangs his head against the wall for hours."

    "That's horrible," says his mother. "How do you cope with it?"

    "Oh, I just sit there and keep playing my bagpipes."
     
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  16. Flyer1976
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    You're quite the cheeky little bugger. ;)
     
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  17. bez7
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    Keeping it light at the end of the voting day!
     
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  18. Gargoyle
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    Another MP'er found this and posted it on FB...

    scottish-math.jpg
     
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  19. ACMM
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    Math is different on the other side of the pond ;)
     
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  20. Gargoyle
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    Perhaps it has something to do with the new currency conversion after independence?
     
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  21. ACMM
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    No longer a pound for a pound ;)
     
  22. satman40

    satman40 Gold Member

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    The US had no problem declaring their independence from England,
     
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  23. WilliamQ

    WilliamQ Gold Member

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    Seems like things will say status quo.
     
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  24. anileze

    anileze Gold Member

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    Next time around it will be sweet. London will find ways to piss off the Scots. :)
     
  25. WilliamQ

    WilliamQ Gold Member

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    Thought there is a "promise" of no challenge for a generation. A Japanese lives for over a century ... So year 2114?
     
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