Safer Airlines?

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Travel' started by MX, Jul 21, 2014.  |  Print Topic

  1. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    The New York Times recently published a survey of routes between Western Europe and South Asia, that the airlines took during the week prior to the MH17 tragedy. As the graphic illustrates, only British Airways and Air France proactively and consistently avoided the war zone in Ukraine by a wide margin. Unfortunately, the FAA and Eurocontrol did not consider 3 downed aircraft at lower altitudes to indicate enough of a risk for the big passenger jets in this busy flight corridor. :(

    Routes.jpg
     
  2. vickers

    vickers Gold Member

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    wow, very interesting to see.... kuddos to those carriers who took a proactive stance.
     
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  3. OceanTrotter3

    OceanTrotter3 Silver Member

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    Wow, thanks for sharing. NYTimes has the coolest interactive charts.
     
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  4. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    Here's another graph showing which airlines flew over the disputed territory the last seven days before the crash:

    (source)

    [​IMG]

    I found it interesting that United Airlines is listed with five flights. Which regular UA route would take them over that region and weren't US carriers advised by the US government to not go there? Perhaps charter flights for the DoD?
     
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  5. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    Very interesting and intriguing data point indeed. I noticed that Deutsche Luftwaffe (German Airforce) is on the list as well. Hope this doesn't blow up into a major global conflict.
     
  6. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    Afghanistan shuttle.
     
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  7. OceanTrotter3

    OceanTrotter3 Silver Member

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    I'm surprised to find SQ being so high up the list. If the route is a cheaper option, given the wealth of the company, I wouldn't thought SQ would have risk it.

    At the same time, this gives Malaysia Airline some... leverage/way out? It could have been any of those airlines, SQ and Emirates included.
     
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  8. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    Lots of armchair quarterbacking here. MH was destroyed by rogue elements in what was basically a local civil war what sort of way out should they need?:rolleyes:

    NYT article is a adaption from info posted elsewhere which in turn was being promoted as a bit of PR by the BA-philes.
     
  9. OceanTrotter3

    OceanTrotter3 Silver Member

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    I haven't been keeping up w/ the news recently, but I think there were finger pointing (naturally) regarding whether airlines should have flew that way, and that the price to save some gas money resulted in a tragedy. I'm assuming the fact that there are other premium airlines on the route relinquish some of that burden of MH.

    I used to be a subscriber of NYT, and really enjoyed their interactives (had to unsubscribe since I wasn't reading as much). For example, tools such as the Rent/Buy 'calculator' (link). Information unrepresented is just... data. It's only useful when its made meaningful. :)
     
  10. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    Have all those armchair quarterback posts been deleted overnight, or what are you talking about?
     
  11. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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  12. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    I looked up UA976 on flightradar24.com. Its normal path crosses Western Ukraine. But during the timeframe in question, it also detoured around Ukraine.
     
  13. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    I did some more "research" and it appears that the FAA had advised US airlines to not fly through Crimean airspace due to uncertainties about air traffic control/ Different area, but I recall seeing initial reports after the MH17 crash about the FAA advisory (my term) that seemed to indicate that it applied to the crash area.

    I did know that the airspace MH17 was in was open for commercial traffic, though. And used by many airlines at the time, as the stats above show.

    Thanks. A bit scary to contemplate what the consequences might have been if it had been a UA 777.
     
  14. Terry Yap

    Terry Yap Gold Member

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    Lots of airlines and lots of flights on that route it seems, just very unfortunate and tragic for that MH flight. Really hope the people responsible get punished for this.
     
  15. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    Read what I wrote at the link in that post. :)

    There was a NOTAM active at lower altitudes but the plane was on a valid routing along with many other planes in the same corridor that day.
     
  16. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    I read your blog post the day it was posted. Trust me, I read the blog religiously.

    yes, and I didn't say there wasn't :) We are talking about two different things.

    http://time.com/3001874/ukraine-crash-faa-crimea-airspace/

    "The Federal Aviation Administration warned U.S. air carriers not to fly in a region about 200 miles away from where Malaysian crash occurred in Ukraine."

    "Earlier this year the Federal Aviation Administration banned American air carriers from flying over part of the disputed area between Russia and Ukraine over safety concerns, but the area where Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 crashed on Thursday was not included in this restricted airspace."


    After the MH17 crash, I read/heard in several news reports that the FAA had banned US flying in the disputed area. That was early on when people wondered how on earth MH could possibly fly over the eastern Ukrainian battlefields. Those reports weren't accurate in that they left the impression (at least with me) that US carriers were prohibited from going where MH17 was when it crashed. Hence my initial post in this thread wondering why UA was on that list of carriers...

    Clear now? ;)
     
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  17. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    I was not a BA or AF-phile prior to this. But if there's good PR for these carriers now, it's certainly well deserved! One can only admire their common sense and proactive attitude.
     
  18. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    Sooo ...lets see now...BA still flying to TLV (a reported quite profitable route:))
     
  19. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    Are you suggesting that this time BA put profitability ahead of passenger safety? Maybe they should've followed the herd and left their pax stranded.
     
  20. Boraxo

    Boraxo Silver Member

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    As posted on FT, I will only fly G20 airlines if possible. Specifically:

    UA/AA/DL/WN/AS
    LH/BA
    QF/NZ

    These get me most of the places I need to go

    Have reluctantly flown EK, Aeroflot and Thai but not my pref.

    In General FAA and EU regulators are more conservative and strict than IATA. Though I've had Greek pilots smoking in the cockpit.

    I know people love to fly C/F on all type of Asian and MidEast carriers but I have no desire to do that. And feel vindicated in light of incidents with MH, OZ, and previously Egyptair. My priority is getting to my destination safely, not a nice meal.
     
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  21. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    In this case though both FAA and Eurocontrol were asleep at the switch, and LH happily flew over the war zone. It's not the best set of data to support your formula. ;)
     
  22. Boraxo

    Boraxo Silver Member

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    Good point about LH but as NYT demonstrates above at least some established Euro and US airlines thought about the issue before MH went down. I doubt the others even gave it a thought - more concerned about saving fuel. I still trust LH - their safety record is impeccable.

    And of course the pilots are a critical component - do you get someone like Sully on your bird or someone who is afraid to speak up when things go wrong (OS) or even worse a nutcase like the one that took MH into the ocean?
     
  23. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    Pretty sure you mean MS there. May as well get the details correct if you're going to go down this ridiculous path.
     

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