President of AA's Pilots' Union Resigns

Discussion in 'American Airlines | AAdvantage' started by DestinationDavid, Aug 9, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. DestinationDavid
    Original Member

    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

    Messages:
    6,846
    Likes Received:
    12,715
    Status Points:
    11,770
    LINK.

    The president of the union that represents pilots at American Airlines has resigned after members soundly rejected a tentative contract from the bankrupt carrier.

    David Bates said in a letter to the pilots on Thursday that he agreed to resign late on Wednesday at the request of the board of the Allied Pilots Association.


    Bates will be replaced by Keith Wilson, who ran against Bates for union President in 2010, losing in a run-off election, according to a source close to the matter.


    The union's board planned to announce Wilson as the new president on Thursday, the source said.

    Rank-and-file pilots turned down American's last and final contract offer on Wednesday, with 61 percent of those that voted, or 4,600, opposing, and 2,935 in favor. The pilots could face stricter terms should the judge overseeing American's bankruptcy now allow the airline to end its current contract with the union.
     
  2. LETTERBOY
    Original Member

    LETTERBOY Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    2,522
    Status Points:
    1,425
    The union can't possibly believe they'll get anything better than this from the bankruptcy court. I'd bet money that the judge lets AA impose its own terms, then the union'll whine about that. They're just giving the finger to AA's management, and at the same time cutting off their nose to spite their face. And I don't think this will have much, if any, effect on a potential merger with US.
     
    jbcarioca, garyst16, IPBrian and 2 others like this.
  3. DestinationDavid
    Original Member

    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

    Messages:
    6,846
    Likes Received:
    12,715
    Status Points:
    11,770
    I also doubt they'll come away from this thinking they got the better end of a deal. Time will tell. Quite a gamble they've made.
     
  4. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,486
    Likes Received:
    5,786
    Status Points:
    4,070
    I was taught in first grade that "stupidest" is not a word in the English language. Sorry, Mrs. Hansen, but this move by the AA pilots is the stupidest thing I ever saw. And self-centered too. Enjoy the terms sheet, Dudes.
     
  5. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,414
    Likes Received:
    3,574
    Status Points:
    2,025
    And about now all the pilots flying for Eagle start to drool...
     
  6. marcwint55

    marcwint55 Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,517
    Likes Received:
    4,573
    Status Points:
    2,570
    greedy unions are the cause of many problems in the industry
     
    LETTERBOY and jbcarioca like this.
  7. basiface

    basiface Silver Member

    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    202
    Status Points:
    420
    I'm not sure what exactly AA's final offer was so I wouldn't jump to call the pilots greedy. They've already accepted many cutbacks since 9/11, so where would you draw the line?
     
  8. Pizzaman
    Original Member

    Pizzaman Co-founder

    Messages:
    4,518
    Likes Received:
    8,755
    Status Points:
    7,270
    The last offer reduced the furloughs, preserved pension benefits, included pay raises and a stake in the post-bankruptcy airline. The pilots might not be greedy (though I think they are), but IMO they are delusional if they think they'll get a better deal from the bankruptcy judge.
     
  9. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    Messages:
    28,217
    Likes Received:
    61,749
    Status Points:
    20,020
    While the latest offer did increase value for the pilots who were employed I think that it also raised a number of questions about how many of them would be, particularly with respect to the domestic codesharing option and increased regional service.

    Dunno which is right or wrong, but I can certainly understand why some pilots didn't think this was the best deal for them.
     
    basiface likes this.
  10. Pizzaman
    Original Member

    Pizzaman Co-founder

    Messages:
    4,518
    Likes Received:
    8,755
    Status Points:
    7,270
    I think it's reasonable for many of the pilots to think this isn't the best deal. But, I don't think it's prudent for them to think about this in a vacuum. If AA weren't in BK, then I believe the pilots could wait for a better offer. While the government might not let them strike, they could still hold out for a better contract.

    In this situation, they're on a clock. And, while it is still possible the judge rules in their favor, I think it's much more likely he rules in favor of letting AA void the union contracts. I think it's even less likely that AA sweetens the offer if the judge voids the old contract.

    Which makes me think the end result here is they end up with less than this current offer, and possibly a significant amount less (although I think AA will have some incentive to be more reasonable than previous BK airlines).
     
  11. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    Messages:
    28,217
    Likes Received:
    61,749
    Status Points:
    20,020
    I completely agree with you that agreeing to a contract would have been smarter than trusting it to the judge. But I also realize that many don't see the big picture so well.
     
    gamecock and LETTERBOY like this.
  12. DestinationDavid
    Original Member

    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

    Messages:
    6,846
    Likes Received:
    12,715
    Status Points:
    11,770
    Some do and still choose to gamble though.

    On my flight from MIA-SJU on Saturday I overheard two FAs talking about their contract votes and they both said they didn't think they'd get anything better by rejecting the offer, but that they wanted to symbolically let AA know they didn't think what the company was doing to them was right, so they were going to vote no.

    An interesting and sad time for AA employees, regardless of how they vote.
     
  13. Pizzaman
    Original Member

    Pizzaman Co-founder

    Messages:
    4,518
    Likes Received:
    8,755
    Status Points:
    7,270
    You're absolutely correct. And that's the unfortunate part. No happy ending when two sides forget what they're really fighting over.
     
    Wandering Aramean and LETTERBOY like this.
  14. LETTERBOY
    Original Member

    LETTERBOY Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    2,522
    Status Points:
    1,425
    I agree that it's sad for the employees, but if they reject this deal in favor of what will almost certainly be a worse deal from the bankruptcy court, then they're bringing some of it on themselves. As I said above about the pilots, they're just cutting off their nose to spite their face. And frankly, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them if they go that route.
     
  15. DestinationDavid
    Original Member

    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

    Messages:
    6,846
    Likes Received:
    12,715
    Status Points:
    11,770
    All true. As mentioned by pizzaman and WanderingAramean above, sadly many don't see the big picture.
     
    LETTERBOY likes this.
  16. basiface

    basiface Silver Member

    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    202
    Status Points:
    420
    Some people would rather get knocked out fighting than just throw in the towel.
     
  17. DestinationDavid
    Original Member

    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

    Messages:
    6,846
    Likes Received:
    12,715
    Status Points:
    11,770
    I suppose but the fight doesn't end after the KO. There's an aftermath to think about.
     
    LETTERBOY likes this.
  18. LETTERBOY
    Original Member

    LETTERBOY Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    2,522
    Status Points:
    1,425
    I don't think the aftermath will turn out any better for the unions than the actual fight will. :):confused::rolleyes:
     
  19. HeathrowGuy
    Original Member

    HeathrowGuy Gold Member

    Messages:
    7,131
    Likes Received:
    10,591
    Status Points:
    12,520
    The numbers for independent vs. merged AA will look vastly different once relief from the labor contracts (esp. the pilot contract) is obtained from the bankruptcy court. There's a reason why Parker tried to encourage AA labor to accept the TA's -- once 1113 relief is imposed, Parker can't reasonably justify the additional costs that adhering to his term sheets would bring to New American, and the inevitable renege on those term sheets will get him booted out of the game during the remainder of the BK process. And Horton will appear to be the good guy by having appeared to be "open" to a merger after careful deliberation.
     
    LETTERBOY and Wandering Aramean like this.
  20. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,486
    Likes Received:
    5,786
    Status Points:
    4,070
    Here's an interesting piece about a letter the new AA pilots' president, Keith Wilson, sent to his colleagues this weekend.

    http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/...ident-addresses-members-in-first-letter.html/

    Part of me is troubled by a point in his letter where Mr. Wilson recounts a "memorable" (in other words, not just a quick remark in passing) conversation he had while recently a first officer on an AA trip to Tokyo. There appears to be a word missing in Mr. Wilson's letter, but it reads like the conversation was with another AA pilot and union member. While there are a lot of unknowns -- was the conversation in the cockpit, or in a crew rest area, or in a hotel on the overnight, for example -- it gave me pause to read about it.

    Even if it was in the cockpit, I realize there is a lot of open time on long flights like those to Japan. But still, Mr. Wilson's telling of it brought back memories of the Northwest pilots who became so immersed in the discussion of a new company crew scheduling system that they overflew their destination and didn't respond to ground radio transmissions.

    In this weekend's letter, Mr. Wilson goes on to say that pilots must ensure they are "performing our cockpit duties to the absolute best of our abilities. We must eliminate any potential for distraction by ensuring that our conduct is beyond reproach."

    I certainly hope that means he sees the need to limit in-flight shop-talk chats, and, as I say, maybe this one he talks about was on the ground in a hotel layover.

    It bothers me a little that labor relations have deteriorated so badly I should even have to wonder.
     
  21. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,486
    Likes Received:
    5,786
    Status Points:
    4,070
  22. LETTERBOY
    Original Member

    LETTERBOY Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    2,522
    Status Points:
    1,425
  23. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,486
    Likes Received:
    5,786
    Status Points:
    4,070
    +1, or, more apropos, +1001

    Still waiting on official word from "da judge," though.
     
    LETTERBOY likes this.
  24. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    Messages:
    28,217
    Likes Received:
    61,749
    Status Points:
    20,020
    Apparently that was a pre-written Union release set to go when the ruling came down but it was inadvertently sent out before the ruling actually happened. :oops:
    http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/a...sean-lane-grants-amr-management-1113-a-2.html
     
  25. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    Messages:
    28,217
    Likes Received:
    61,749
    Status Points:
    20,020

Share This Page