Pilots win battle in bankruptcy court!!!!

Discussion in 'American Airlines | AAdvantage' started by kansaskeith, Aug 15, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

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    http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/...ilots-contract-and-impose-tougher-terms.html/

    There has been a separate thread over the last week or so about the AA pilots union prez resigning, but today's development is major, major news in itself, so though it may anger one or two, I will start a separate thread.

    AA is saying the judge's ruling was because of two small parts of its proposal he didn't like, so it plans to change those, and resubmit its request within two days. We will see.

    Should anyone have landed on this thread from a vacuum and be curious as to the earlier thread that started last week when the pilots' union president quit, here is a link to it: http://milepoint.com/forums/threads/president-of-aas-pilots-union-resigns.42501/
     
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  2. LETTERBOY
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    LETTERBOY Gold Member

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    Can the judge's decision be appealed? Have to think he'd rule the same way on the FA contract, too, unless there's something drastically different about that case. Assuming the FAs reject the contract, of course.
     
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  3. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

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    My first thought here is the flight attendants, who are still voting on their contract offer for another three days plus. If those who haven't yet cast ballots see that the pilots' contract was NOT abrogated after their members rejected the contract offer, isn't there less of an incentive for those flight attendants to vote "yes" between now and the Sunday deadline?

    But then what do I know? I certainly had predicted today's decision on the pilots would go the other way. And heck, I probably thought the pilots would ratify in their recent balloting, too.
     
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  4. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

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    Not to parse words, but AA rather than say "appeal" is saying it is going to change two sub-parts of its proposal and resubmit its plan to the judge within a couple of days.
     
  5. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

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    This paragraph from the judge's ruling, obtained from Bloomberg's www.businessweek.com , pretty well explains the two parts that the judge, Sean Lane, didn't like:

    “'The court concludes that American’s proposed changes to furlough and codesharing have not been justified,”' Lane said in his opinion."
     
  6. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    The two parts which the judge rejected were changing the furlough rules and changing the domestic codesharing rules. Those were probably the most contentious sections of the plan from the pilots' perspective so I'd say that's a pretty good win for them. Yes, AMR is resubmitting an amended filing. But until we see whats in that revised version or if it is approved we won't really know what is next.
     
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  7. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

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    "Mr. Aramean:" Not trying to put you in the judge's shoes, but I am curious, have you studied the airline's "1113" term sheet proposal to the FLIGHT ATTENDANTS to know if it has anything as contentious in it as the furlough and sharing-of-code parts that were in the pilots' 1113 sheet? I really don't know, and I thought you might.
     
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  8. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

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    I now notice this paragraph which may be a late add (?) to the Dallas Morning News blog linked earlier:

    "However, Judge Sean Lane ruling agreed with American that significant changes are needed to the Allied Pilots Association’s contract to lower the airline’s costs in bankruptcy reorganization and rejected the APA’s contention that American’s business plan is 'fatally flawed.' He also found that American’s business plan is 'very similar' to what was presented by other airlines in bankruptcies."

    I'm so confused! And I'm not even a party to this. Think about how those who are must feel.

    Anyway, some quotation from Mr. Y. Berra comes to mind. Something about when it's really over :)
     
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  9. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

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  10. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

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    I'm sure the other 100-plus pages (which I haven't read) are quite cogent, but this "duh" moment that jumped out at me when I was testing the .pdf post above with my Adobe reader.

    According to the judge, in his exact words: "Deregulation changed everything."

    Gosh, ya think?
     
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  11. marcwint55

    marcwint55 Gold Member

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    that may qualify as the unerstatement of the year
     
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  12. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    I haven't reviewed the FA 1113 sheet.

    I did give the 111 page PDF a read last night and posted some thoughts on the ruling. The gist of it is that the pilots are screwed once AMR files the amended version of the 1113 dropping or limiting these two specific clauses. The big question is whether the Court will require that the next ruling follow only on another full round of negotiations and hearings or if they'll just rule based on the previous testimony and the revised term sheet.

    Also of interest to me were the proposed larger RJs numbers (300 of them!) which the Court seems to think is reasonable and that pilots averaged 78 hours of sick time each in 2011. That's more than an average month of flying each. Oh, and the admission from AMR execs on the management policy for the past 8 years or so:
    Ouch.
     
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  13. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

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    Note this "special hotline" from the FLIGHT ATTENDANTS union. Pretty strongly worded, says in so many ways yesterday's ruling was against the pilots, and makes it clear that in the writer's opinion the FAs need to ratify the AA contract offer, on which voting continues until Sunday.

    http://www.apfa.org/content/category/9/17/626/
     
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  14. dream7
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    dream7 Silver Member

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    This may be a case of winning the battle and subsequently losing the war.
     
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  15. DestinationDavid
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    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

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    It's pretty clear that the judge sees merit in AA's case and only had two small quibbles with the plan.
     
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  16. LETTERBOY
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    LETTERBOY Gold Member

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    It did? Holy $***! Now you're going to tell me that the sky is blue, and the earth isn't flat! What else did I miss?!?! :D
     
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  17. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    I believe that the sun now rises in the East. :oops:
     
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  18. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

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