Pearson Express

Discussion in 'Air Canada | Aeroplan' started by canucklehead, Dec 10, 2014.  |  Print Topic

  1. canucklehead
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    canucklehead Gold Member

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    As it gets closer to opening, here is the proposed pricing for the Pearson Express

    Pricing for the Pearson-Union Express train is out. $27.50 for a one way trip :eek: , less if you have the Presto-card ($19). You can buy on board for $2 surcharge

    http://www.upexpress.com/en/information/information.aspx#faqs
    http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/12/union-pearson_express_as_expensive_as_expected/

    to obtain a Presto card, you would go hear to order one - https://www.prestocard.ca/en-US/Pages/ContentPages/AboutPresto.aspx
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
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  2. tomh009
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    $27 doesn't sound so bad and at $19 it's quite decent ($15 to the Bloor station). 25 minutes guaranteed time with no traffic delays.

    What's the cost for a taxi/limo to downtown these days?
     
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  3. canucklehead
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    $53 to Union Station area (DVP to Bathurst S of Bloor), $54 N of Bloor - Yonge to Bathurst.

    The $27.50 is on the high end of what I expected, but the Presto is more reasonable, and actually cheaper than the Pacific Western Bus that was recently discontinued.

    The chart they post for TTC is a bit off. I have done in <1h before, so if I have some time, I would still use the TTC and if I am in a hurry and need to go DT, the train+Presto is reasonable.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
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  4. slalom

    slalom Silver Member

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    I'm still "wait and see" on this. Its utility will depend on how frequent the service is, how easy it is to get to the boarding/unboarding platform, how easy it is to exit and get to the right part of the terminal.

    A few times last year I took cabs from Manhattan to Newark because, while the regular NJ Transit is great, its stop is fairly remote, and the monorail service wasn't reliable due to construction and resulting overcrowding. It could take as long to get to the AC terminal as it did to get from Manhattan to EWR.

    How much time it takes to get to a T-1 gate, how convenient is a T-3 transfer, etc., will be major factors beyond cost.

    The cash fare is way too high....the Presto price is getting closer to what I think is reasonable.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
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  5. tomh009
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    For business travel, $27 is quite reasonable. Heathrow Express works out to $38 at regular price, Narita Express is about $30. NJ Transit ... well, that one is not exactly an uplifting experience. :(
     
  6. Canadi>n
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    Canadi>n Gold Member

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    Just took the TTC home from T1. Until the King streetcar was short turned at Dufferin (didn't I read yesterday that the TTC was no longer going to short turn streetcars?!), I was running 45-minutes on the 192 (5-minute wait at T1), the subway to Dundas West and the King car. Infill King bus was slowed by traffic from Bathurst to Yonge but still made it home in just over an hour (to Sherbourne). $1.80 senior's ticket. I've got a Presto card -- for use mainly in Ottawa -- so might try the train for $16.50 if I'm in a hurry to get downtown, but will still have a 15-minute walk, $1.80 streetcar or $10 cab from Union Station. Still a lot cheaper than $60 by limo/cab. (Any idea of the hours? I'd be most interested after 11p from YYZ and from 5a to YYZ.)
     
  7. londoncalling

    londoncalling Silver Member

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    This is hopefully just a start for RT to YYZ. The western burbs, 905, should get a GO train tie in to the link. They are both managed by Metrolinx.
     
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  8. The Lev
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    For a family of 3 or 4, cab still makes sense.
     
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  9. ACMM
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    For two, who would have to get to Union, a taxi or car service makes most sense also.
     
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  10. QSG
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    $19 isn't so bad ! As long as it is frequent. You can't really compare the NEX fare as there are different packages and prices according to destination. Also there are discount busses from NRT to Tokyo Station for 1,000 JPY. Also distance is much greater ! Glad you are finally getting a service that is frequent and quick.
     
  11. Canadi>n
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    Makes no sense, not enough traffic from west of the city. Most of those folks are families and they'll drive and park, or take a cousin's limo. As noted it's not cost effective for more than two people vs cab/limo. Mississauga transit already runs a good bus service from its city centre to YYZ, as does GO from several locations around north Toronto. The Express is designed for city centre destined or originating travelers. Big flaw is there's no built-in transfer to the TTC at Union, Weston Rd or Dundas West. There's also pressure to have it used as a commuter rail for people coming in from Weston Rd or Dundas West...which of course would defeat its purpose as an Airport Express. But it does share the GO line already at Weston Rd and Dundas West. BTW I've haven't noticed any construction that would suggest an inside link between the Dundas West TTC subway station and the GO/Airport Express station. Certainly not something that would be ready by this coming summer. (Any connection to existing GO from the west would have to be at Humber/Woodbine Race Course where the AE curves off on its own right-of-way to YYZ.)

    Since it will cost $60 million a year to operate and given the fare structure, it's likely the average fare will be about $25. This would require 2.4 million riders a year, which is 6,600 customers a day or 365 customers an hour...or 45 passengers per ride (assuming 4 trains in each direction). That's about twice the number of people I tend to see on the 192 whenever I take it out or from YYZ. As for that almost half-billion it cost to build and equip...like the SkyDome, that will never be recouped.

    TTC, GO and regional buses will still carry the bulk of non-car/limo travelers to YYZ because too many workers rely on these services at a cost-effective price, and others originate from various parts of the city which don't make it practical to go down to Union or even Dundas West. For the latter, it's another 10 minutes on the subway to Kipling and 15 minutes to YYZ on the 192 so doesn't make much sense by the time one factors in the walk time to get between the subway and the AE/GO station, then wait for the next train.

    Since there's no longer a dedicated airport bus service, the AE will have less competition but wonder if -- as in Hong Kong -- if Metrolinx will consider running shuttle busses between Union and major hotels to collect people? It's not in the cards, but if ridership doesn't meet targets, the may have to adopt this augmentation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  12. Canadi>n
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    I still tend to opt for the limousine buses at NRT since they take me right to my hotel without the hassle of transferring onto the subway. And packages throw in a day pass (or more) on one of the metro lines for about Y3000. Same at KIX. Trains may be faster but buses are more convenient for "tourists".
     
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  13. The Lev
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    The Lev Silver Member

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    Their fare should include free access to TTC - presumably that will happen eventually when TTC adopts PRESTO.

    Those stops were a really stupid idea added by politicians as a sop to local neighbourhoods. I hope when ridership studies show virtually nobody using those stations that they will be closed so that this can be a 15-18 minute express service rather than the current 25-minute three-stop.

    This thing will be a white elephant financially, but it's all part of being a world class™ city.

     
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  14. ACMM
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  15. ACMM
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    I agree on the stops and white elephant. I do not think they will get the ridership. On the free TTC access. I do not see that happening. You need to pay just to get the presto card I think and then load up $. I do not see the TTC wanting to give away revenue.

    (Poasted from my milepoint enabled iPhone)
     
  16. canucklehead
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    canucklehead Gold Member

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    Doesn't YYZ also have the most expensive airport fees in NA?

    +1 on the TTC addition and reconsideration of the local stops, though for a rider who wants to connect onto the Bloor line, the Bloor/Dundas stop looks convenient.
    Hopefully it isn't a white elephant, but gets modified to adjust to the economic reality. Its taken Toronto this long to get an airport link and given that traffic has become so much more congested in the last decade or two, this option will be useful. Personally, I will prob stick with TTC unless I need to be in DT core.
     
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  17. londoncalling

    londoncalling Silver Member

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    You may be missing some demographics. There are now close to or over 1 million people living in Mississauga and Halton region and growing at breakneck speed. The GO trains are now running every 30 minutes and soon going to every 15. Now is the time for metrolinx to consider RT from a GO station to YYZ before the highway congestion gets more out of control.
     
  18. Canadi>n
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    Canadi>n Gold Member

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    I will accept that the population growth to the west is far greater than to the north or east, and have always thought the feds were stupid wanting to locate a replacement for YYZ at Pickering rather than north or Brampton. However, the current demographic details of who lives and is moving to this region shows they are very auto oriented, in fact most of the limousines and their drivers are registered in Mississauga and Brampton. Other than those who work at YYZ, they are not transit oriented. Not to mention, the municipalities in this region have invested in a transit way approach to moving people, creating dedicated motorways for buses...some of which feed into YYZ. As I posted, GO could consider a transfer point at Humber/Woodbine Race Track if they felt there was enough demand from the west but their studies clearly showed that was not the case, and that the transit ways of the regional systems would suffice over a heavy rail alternative.

    As for transfer to the TTC, with the Presto card it will just add another fare to the tally. Everything I read stresses the fact there is no free transfer to or from the TTC. And as I pointed out, for those wanting to use the Dundas West interchange, it's going to be a long, cold (or hot in the summer) walk since there's no evidence yet of construction of a direct link to the subway. Why pay a surcharge of over $10 to ride from YYZ to Dundas West, or from there to YYZ, when you're just as well staying on the TTC and using the 192?
     
  19. Canadi>n
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    Canadi>n Gold Member

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    As I said, it'll be like the SkyDome. Remember the Airport Express was initially sold as self-supporting and Lavalin was given carte blanche by the province to build and run it (at no cost to the taxpayer, was the pledge). However, after Lavalin got into it and realized they'd lose the company if they proceeded, so they abandoned the project and left the province with no alternative than go ahead and build and run it. Even as a P3 it didn't make sense.
     
  20. QSG
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    Re: Presto Card- I am amazed that there is not a cross Canada solution (like Interac) for various transit systems. I would say that almost 90% of contact-less transit cards are joined in Japan. I can charge my JREast Suica card at a NIshitetsu Terminal in Kyushu. Certainly there is a way for all the local transit systems to get on board with having one or two competing cards and allowing access on all systems. Take a look at the Compass system in Vancouver, still not functioning ! :rolleyes:
     
  21. tomh009
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    tomh009 Gold Member

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    Maybe. Really depends on traffic, and how close to Union your destination is.
     
  22. tomh009
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    I'm getting close to 50 visits to NRT now :), I much prefer sitting on a train to being on the bus.

    If your hotel is near Tokyo Station or Shinagawa, no need to change. Next week, I'll be in Mita so I can change to Yamanote Line at Shinagawa and go one stop to Tamachi (no extra cost). With hand luggage only it's really not a big deal. :)
     
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  23. londoncalling

    londoncalling Silver Member

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    AH SO GOOD ROUTE:D SAVE MONEY
     
  24. ACMM
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    Of course it does, but for anyone who has to pay even 10$ to get to Union by cab, then 27 round-trip that is already the cost of the airport taxi if you consider two people. I travel alot and I know I will never use this elephant and I suspect very few business people will. Trains every 15 minutes? And the train is not that large from the photos I have seen. You have a large group of people wanting to get on the train at YYZ and they will have overflow and then have to wait for the next train. Not convenient. I think this was not thought out at all. They will likely make some $ from the PanAm games next summer but after that I think they will be hard-pressed to make their passenger numbers even after 5 years. But by that time I will be retired and will always use a car-service to the airport for comfort and convenience.
     
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  25. Canadi>n
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    Japan is a very centralized country and JR a major national operator of both intercity rail as well as city systems. This means it can issue a "national" card, but remember the SUICA can't be used on most of the other rail systems, IIRC. In Canada and the US, there are three very distinct levels of government which are not supposed to overlap but in the end local authorities make decisions on matters like transit. The Ontario government undertook to create the Presto card and cover its costs for transit systems, but the TTC has alway been arrogant and wanted its own system. It spent several years and millions of $s to in the end abandon other options and reluctantly adopt Presto. That also explains why it has the least efficient fare collection system in NAmerica. I have fare cards from transit systems all over Asia, the US and Europe, but am still waiting for my Presto card to work (at the proper fare level) on the TTC!

    Both MasterCard and Visa in NAmerica had tried to convince transit systems to adopt their cards for payment but I don't know of any that have adopted it. And not sure if either of these charge systems would be accepted outside the city of issue. (Cape Town has adopted the MasterCard payment system but it is not accepted universally across South Africa. The Gautrain in J'burg doesn't accept it, not sure about that city's new bus system.)

    I'd like to be able to use my Presto card in Edmonton next week, or my Metrocard from NYC in Dallas when I'm there on Tuesday and Wednesday.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014

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