ord's ice storm and the horror of America's hedge fund owned, profit is all that matters aircartel

Discussion in 'United Airlines | MileagePlus' started by ahappyelite, Jan 1, 2016.  |  Print Topic

  1. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    If you don't already know that American air travel is the pits, worse than at any time in history, you'd need to see nothing more than the shutdown of O'Hare last week and the stranding of thousands of passengers by the aircartel which didn't even make a pretense that they could care less about the churnees who they depend on in this post frequent flyer airlines (PFFA's) era of air travel. Mega profit can be realized only by shifting all kinds of hardships onto the shoulders of the seat fillers and unfortunates who work for this most greedy and indifferent cartel. Greed dictates the inconvenient schedules, plane types, hour boarding processes, closure of hubs and jamming of all flights through hubs divvied up by the gangstero's. At the hint of inclement weather, pretty much the whole cartel closes down (no more carrier pride that we got most of our flights out while others didn't) Because the airlines collude to control seats to a minimum, those who have flights cancelled are offered flights two or three days later (missed cruises and nonrefundable hotels leading to losses of thousands for some, lost jobs, cancer treatments not undertaken). Weather is used as a profit center, with half empty flights combined, and seats showing up for sky high prices (gouging taking advantage of the desperate) even as the airlines refuse to use those seats for reaccomodation. Miss your flight and 100% of what they made you pay through their model that forces you to avoid being ripped off by buying 9 months in advance is gone: No waivers, no favors. Kudos to the administration and Congress for creating this bonanza for Wall Street, the worst consumer rip off in U.S. history. As soon as a snow flake flies, you get a pit in your stomach realizing the aircartel, them, will no longer break a sweat to get you to your destination, if you don't like it, you can go from one of them to another of them. Incredible, in this high tech era to see the stress (I think greed based stress is killing passengers and employees alike) on people's faces of not knowing whether you will get to where you are going and that sinking feeling when you realize airlines that profit through imposing hardship are an even bigger adversary than mother nature
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
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  2. satman40

    satman40 Gold Member

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    You are correct when everything shuts down due to weather, expenses go on and no one can make a profit.

    Employees are not happy nor are the passengers.

    Safety is always the main concern any operating Airline, and in icing conditions the threats accelerate,

    There is only one type of cancer that is considered an emergency, as per treatment.

    Even flying private we do not always get off the ground,, every year I see several days that we did not go in as a result of the weather .

    I have seen many planes go down, and lives lost in bad weather.

    I have 2,000,000 miles on American Airlines, and thousands of hours as a pilot.
     
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  3. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    since the airlines "stripped out many unnecessary costs" (AKA "customer service") per Jeff Smisek, and since the industry is the most deceitful, fraudulent and consistently hated industry, no rational person would can believe any claim they made about why anything is happening Fraud and deceit is a major earner for this industry. Did the captain switch on the seatbelt sign for safety reasons, or because they need to sell pringles in their dangerously overcrowded plane (like to see the 270 pound window seat passenger evacuate from United's new plasticflyer). Does the captain know that there are diabetics and pregnant people on board who need to use the toilet after a 30 minute bag fee avoidance related boarding delay, 45 minute ground delay in the overcrowded hub ($$$$$$$) and the 40 minute "safety" belt command that such passengers sit while the cartel sells its trail mix.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
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  4. satman40

    satman40 Gold Member

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    Like I Said, I have hit the ceiling many time because I did not fasten my seat belt, and no one was there to remind me.

    The more post you make, it becomes apparent your time has been limited, in the real world,

    I know of no airline that sells Pringles..
     
  5. HaveMilesWillTravel
    Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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  6. satman40

    satman40 Gold Member

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    Thank you,

    You can tell it has been a long time since I have been in the back.

    I can understand one wanting to vent, but I have seen many improvements, and yet I also roll with the punches.,

    Every airline in ORD and other areas had weather related problems, and more is on the way,

    Good to see the board active.
     
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  7. Mrp Alert

    Mrp Alert Silver Member

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  8. Counsellor
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    Counsellor Gold Member

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    Perhaps a partial solution would be to adopt a rule similar to that in the European Union, where if a passenger is in transit, the air carrier has a responsibility to that passenger in case of delay or cancellations, even if caused by weather, to make sure the passenger is housed and fed.

    I'm sure the airlines would load the costs into the ticket price, but it would assure a less-stressful journey for the passenger.

    It might also incentivize the airlines in cases where pax are delayed for long periods, to lay on the extra aircraft to get them where they need to go, if only to cut off their costs of feeding and housing the stranded pax.
     
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  9. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    someone needs to save the airlines from themselves. You simply can't have a national transit system where quarterly profit is all that matters. Who worse than Wall Street speculators to entrust a vital serice to: greedsters who almost crashed the whole country? Monetizing everything is a form of mental illness and it is killing their employees and those who fly. Starting to see airfares collapsing in some markets as people refuse to fly in the wake of gutting of ff programs, or choose Spirit which sucks but only a hairs breadth worse than United (even with the unveiling of their new trailmix at trailmix time offering.) One telling metric: UAL's allegedly low last minute weekend fares almost never sell out (also an indication that while the airlines chase high end people, millions of consumers are hard up for cash.) In some markets, advance purchases no longer make sense because close in fares aren't much higher or are less.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
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  10. satman40

    satman40 Gold Member

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    Airlines are a business, they take the cost fixed and variable pass it on, and for the investor not always profitable.

    Was not too long ago the government bailed out the auto industry, or should I say the taxpayer. They just passed on the cost and the public just keep the vehicles longer.

    Today we live in a society where the banks pay no interest on savings, and we wonder why people do not save,

    We live where you can have a pretty decent life on welfare, and a majority is on welfare.

    You want more, someone is going to pay for it, unless you know where to get a free lunch.
     
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  11. davef139

    davef139 Gold Member

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    Fun fact.

    Pringles are only made in Jackson TN and Mechelen Belgium for the world!!
     
  12. Mrp Alert

    Mrp Alert Silver Member

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    According to Wikipedia, "Pringles are manufactured in factories in Jackson, Tennessee; Mechelen, Belgium; Johor, Malaysia; and Fujian, China."


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using TapatalkU
     
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  13. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    There is also the "weight and balance" lie told so that people can be bounced out of seats- recall when people bought a seat on a plane and not just a dash; the weather and atc lies told every day to cover everything from crew lateness, equipment malfunctions, too short turnaround times, and the delays that happen when greed forces you to jam people onto planes, planes into already overused hubs and to fly at hours that are convenient for the cartel and most profitable for the carteliers The pure evil of all of this is offloading this greed occasioned stress onto airline employees and to the many people who find air travel at its best unbearable. The saddest part is to make those employees the face of a faceless, unreachable, unconscionable organization operating in the shadows, and whose leaders hide out at all times, crawling out from under rocks to make grand pronouncements about how they will fix everything by brewing new coffee.
     
  14. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    the most unforgiveable, un American lie told by the airlines is the rapidity with which they blame government agencies, especially TSA for delays (and also ATC). Because flights most go at times when they are so jammed that there is no oxygen in the planes and since the airlines are basically subsidiaries of each other, the schedules must not allow for less than cattle car capacity off-hours flights if at all possible. Billions of dollars of quarterly profits purchased with the blood sweat and tears (and mangled joints) of passengers and employees and some sorts of corruption that will some day be revealed. Most audacious lie of all "We know you have a choice in air travel" Our current aerial catastrophe is built on that not being true, of course.

    The new greeting from the cockpit is :"Doing the indefensible every day is what we do."
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
  15. satman40

    satman40 Gold Member

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    Weight and balance is many times related to the weather, and the cargo.

    Airlines are regulated by the Government,,and file a Flight Plan, deal with the Union, and many Government regulations., including flying unprofitable routes to appease s congressman.

    Most airlines go out of business, it is hard to make a profit...best thing is buy some stick and see how much your investment gains...
     
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  16. Counsellor
    Original Member

    Counsellor Gold Member

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    To ahappyelite, if you think a centrally-planned and controlled economy is better than a market economy, you may want to move to the Soviet Union where they do just that. Oh, that's right, they went out of business a while back.

    The airline industry has many problems, but historically the biggest problem was making enough money to pay the bills. That's the reason the government allowed all the mergers until now we don't have a market economy but rather an oligopoly that works to prevent competition. With the high cost of entry (an economic "moat" around the oligopolists) inhibiting the entry of new competitors, and with no restriction on pricing (allowing predatory pricing to drive out the competitors who do try to get in), the free market cannot operate to drive down prices through competition.

    Generally there are only three ways out of this sort of jam: (a) a disruptive technological breakthrough (a Star Trek transporter, maybe) or marketing technique; (b) breaking up the oligopoly (you saw how well that worked, or didn't, with Ma Bell); or (c) reducing the oligopoly to regulated status (like utilities, where there is very limited competition but controlled prices).

    We could try breaking them up again, but that might result in a return to multiple serial bankruptcies. A regulated oligopoly would keep them in business and keep prices reasonable in relation to costs, but inevitably reduces innovation and quality of service. If you think service is bad now, hold onto your hat -- think Ma Bell, and "You can have any color phone you want, so long as you want a black one."

    What's your recommended solution?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2016
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  17. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    First, let us stipulate current air travel is almost universally worse than ever (unless you are reading this in Ethiad's First Class sky lounge.)
    Wall Street gets the profits (hoping for an incredible 40% return on United in just the next 12 months which tells you a lot) while the taxpayer pays enormous bills to protect the skyways, provide infrastructure, law enforcement, regulation, airport authorities, air traffic control, immigration and customs services, etc. So the idea of the airlines being free market exemplars is laughable. What they have managed to do is convince the federal government that their profitability is of paramount concern. Why should the taxpayer care if airlines go bankrupt? Only the Wolves of Wall Street could peddle taxpayer guarantors of profitability (recall that the airlines demanded bailouts after 9/11, which they will surely do again at the fist hint of trouble.) Occasional business failures are inevitable on the ground and would be a sign of consumer friendly cutthroat competition and airline people, not hedge fundmeisters, could control and again differentiate their products-, for example a large number of high quality reasonably priced carriers for the middle class and a much small number looking for business customers and the increasing number of foreign travelers driving prices higher and grounding our own residents.How much effort is currently being expended to lure less the same tiny strata of high flyers? Meanwhile, the post frequent tlyer airlines (PFFA's) have just told the Wall Street Journal (if you read between the lines that lower revenue pax are passing on them and on flying altogether since they've gutted their rewards programs-in a mad, blind dash for ever higher short term profit). They are now force to churn of passengers who only fly once a year and may now not realize how sucky the experience has been engineered by the gangsteros to be.. There is actually a case that left to their own devices this greedfest could -incredibly-still lead to a demise in air travel. It is truly staggering how aggressive the aircartel was in destroying everything that was tolerable or good about air travel. Since 2010, United has gotten worse in scores of different ways-really a race to bottom with the other carteliers. After stipulating what we have now is unsustainable we can explore solutions. The truth is probably that since this is mass transit and people don't want to pay a lot for it (except less than 1% Americans) true competition would mean only tiny profits (but maybe not there is Ryanair). The current billion dollar quarterly profits are literally blood money coming at severe cost to passengers and employees alike.
     
  18. satman40

    satman40 Gold Member

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    UAL had a range of 49-72, and at 54 now, with a 40% increased projection.

    You need to put your money there, instead of wasting it on hot air, you would be far better off financially.

    I have no money invested in airline stocks...I do follow them,

    A buy and hold guy 5 years ago, would still be a loser today, between Unions and Givernment Regulations, this will always be a bad long term unvestment,

    Too many hand demanding consideration., and getting it...even though they do not have a dime invested..like so many others..
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
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  19. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    Interesting to see how the press, especially the business press refuses to cover the obviously serious pushback the post frequent flyer airlines (PFFA's) are getting from the consumer, leading to the collapse of airfares on many routes (after all, with only downsides for travelers, the sole purpose of the merger was to allow the airlines to collude and drive prices sky high and earn record profits) It turns out even when you collude, if you make your product crappier every single day for quarterly profit, and your are so terribly hated, people will do what I've been doing: savings thousands each year by not flying. Amazingly, even in a continental country whose lifesblood is airtravel-held hostage by four terrible airlines and let's face it Delta, not United, is public enemy number one for arrogantly shatting all over even their highest spenders and leading the way to the abyss. But since there are no "airlines," just speculators imposing hardships on others people's lives, maybe the next administration will even be worse than this one has been for air consumers and maybe we'll have just one national carrier after 8 more quarters of short term blindly greedy profit hunting: HEDGEair. They can have all first class service to Martha's Vineyard for former White House officials, regulators and the best lobbysists ever: the aerogangsteros. They can also operate the jitney to the Hamptons for their owners.
    Also amazing how the airlines conduct themselves like boiler room operation, totally inaccessible, and appearing every so often with spurious claims of "Better meals in the sky's" but never defending, here or elsewhere, the abomination of US air travel (anyone travel this holiday period through a busy hub and doesn't think its awful?) Tells you a lot that when your call any airline corporate headquarters, you're not getting through to anyone-they know how much they suck.

    America's Aircartel "Redefining the Indefensible Every Day"
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
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  20. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    I knew I was through with United (well really after they collapsed Continental-a great airline) but then they were going to give me a report card on how much I spent with them-how INSULTING and this was supposed to encourage me (if I was spending other people's money) to corruptly seek out higher fares for the same seat-let's see I'll pay $576 one way instead of $201so I can earn more miles and no one will be the wiser who I am passing this along to. Thus, for United's beancounters, wanted to share what my report card will look like at the end of 2016 (they can bank on it right now)

    YTD Premier qualifying miles
    0
    YTD Premier qualifying segments: 0
    YTD Premier qualifying 0
    MileagePlus activity.

    0

    4 flight segment minimum
    A minimum of four paid flight segments on United and/or United Express® is required in order to qualify for any Premier level.
    0 of 4
    Spend: 0

    Had 2 million pretty happy miles. Sorry that the post FF airlines greed will fall so heavily on the young.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  21. satman40

    satman40 Gold Member

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    My bet is they never knew when you left.,

    None of them even sent me a Christmas Card, even AA and I have over 2 Million just with them,

    I did get an email Christmas Card from them...
     
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  22. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    Really have to catalogue the totally offensive United pseudo, but very insincere, apologies about why they are so bad-which is almost always down to unsustainable greed. Currently tweeting to some very desperate people whose flights have been scratched and who are getting busy signals that they are sorry for the long wait times and that their 'employees" are working to get to the calls. Love the passivity. Of course, the waits would be much shorter it Mr. Smisek and the new executive crew (that is also making some dubious pseudo promises "to fix the airline" and that high spenders hate being relegated to coach is a "Sore spot" without any plan to take action hadn't "stripped out the call answerers in the first place.) The old CEO pioneered the destruction of customer service @ UAL and this was met with cheers by his Wall Street masters.
     
  23. Gargoyle
    Original Member

    Gargoyle Milepoint Guide

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    I think Ryan Air does, along with toys, lotto tickets, and anything else they can think of.

    That said, I think we need to introduce the OP to redtailshark in the DL forum, they could have fun trying to one-up each other.
     
  24. satman40

    satman40 Gold Member

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    Sure the airlines are there to make a profit.

    Looking at the return on the airline stock investment does look real profitable.

    Anyone want To see what it would look like government ran,
     
  25. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    The last thing Wall Street (the airlines) should be doing is saying that they are a business. Everything they do-their whole existence-is paid for by the taxpayer. Tens of billions of dollars are poured into infrastructure, law enforcement, regulation, investigation, operations, etc. Then, every quarter, they get on a conference call and pose as business people as they now pocket $billion QUARTERLY profits. Since they are only concerned with HV people (and that's probably not even many people here), and openly disdain ordinary Americans, we should wonder why the taxpayer is not clawing back some of that windfall profit (since the taxpayer is a much bigger stakeholder than even the Hedgies.) Oh yes, the other time they pose as sophisticated biz people is when they pig out like United's former CEO who took $20 million for delivering a short term bounty through product destruction, ruining whatever image thy had, but in so doing may have imperiled the company's survival (with a -40% stock performance in a year.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2016

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