nonstop LGA to SFO/LAX on UNITED ?

Discussion in 'United Airlines | MileagePlus' started by RRK, May 14, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. RRK

    RRK Silver Member

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    Department of Transportation officially announced and awarded the last eight new "beyond perimeter" exemptions out of DCA.

    UNITED was awarded earlier this year DCA SFO service. Today's new routes from DCA went to:

    Austin ( Southwest ), Portland, Ore. ( Alaska ), San Juan, P.R. ( JetBlue ) and San Francisco ( Virgin America )

    With Virgin America serving the same route from DCA to SFO, I wonder if UNITED will jump on a fare war ?

    There are perimeter rules at DCA ( 1,250 mi ) and at my home town in NYC at LaGuardia ( 1,500 mi ).
    At LGA the exceptions are flights to Denver and flights on Saturdays.

    Always wondered why UNITED never offered "beyond perimeter" flights from LGA to LAX or SFO.
    An early morning flight out of LGA usually is never delayed and I would think it should be a perfect
    and more convient alternative to JFK or EWR.
     
  2. craz
    Original Member

    craz Silver Member

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    doubt theyd get the OK for more then maybe 1 flight if that
     
  3. meFIRST

    meFIRST Silver Member

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    This could be a true p.s service which would put AA's claimed dominance of this route (well, when the 762 works) to rest.

    Not going to happen though. The laws don't allow it.

    LOL. Maybe DEQM on the DCA-SFO route? :D
     
  4. Art234
    Original Member

    Art234 Milepoint Guide

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    One of the reasons for LGA perimeter rules was to force the longer flights to JFK or Newark. LGA has very short runways so transcons would at best be load limited. I do believe US had Sat LAS and AUA flights for a while, but I don't think they were too successful.
     
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  5. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    You answered your own question directly above. They do not offer them because they cannot offer them.

    Runway lengths at DCA and LGA are pretty much the same so I don't think that would be an issue.
     
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  6. EWR764
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    EWR764 Silver Member

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    At least with respect to NYC-SFO, UA owns that market, full stop. AA is an also-ran.

    AA is larger than UA on the JFK-LAX route, but UA is the biggest NYC-LAX carrier with EWR in the fold.
     
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  7. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    But who has higher yields? Just having more seats doesn't make you the best.
     
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  8. EWR764
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    EWR764 Silver Member

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    It's hard to say, since I don't know how much it costs UA to run its p.s. product, nor do I know much about AA's costs, including 762 operations. However, median fares in the NYC-SFO market look like this (2011 data):

    1. UA/EWR $339.75 (combined CO+UA)
    2. UA/JFK $328.42
    3. AA/JFK $266.68
    4. VX/JFK $252.39
    5. DL/JFK $244.12
    6. B6/JFK $213.09

    Passenger Revenue Per Departure NYC-SFO

    1. AA/JFK $65,548
    2. UA/JFK $53,280
    3. DL/JFK $41,875
    4. VX/JFK $37,742
    5. UA/EWR $33,245
    6. B6/JFK $25,826

    Average Revenue Per Occupied Seat NYC-SFO

    1. UA/JFK $538.81
    2. AA/JFK $425.64
    3. VX/JFK $322.58
    4. DL/JFK $299.10
    5. UA/EWR $214.
    6. B6/JFK $200.20

    As with any set of statistics, they can be misleading, but these numbers clearly demonstrate UA's strength in the NYC-SFO market, and how much different the pricing environment is at EWR. Median fares at Newark are higher, but premium cabins at JFK (on all carriers) command much higher prices. Also worth noting is that AA is a high-cost operation, which erodes yields.
     
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  9. SFOtoORD

    SFOtoORD Silver Member

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    Interesting data. Basically, UA has to have a yield premium over AA to JFK since the 757s are more efficient aircraft than the old 762s and also due to the fare premium they get.

    What is more interesting is the EWR data. UA gets a premium fare into that market, but their revenue per occupied seat is so much lower. I assume that means that the majority of the EWR passengers are connecting and thus UA probably isn't getting the same premium they do on O&D.
     
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  10. EWR764
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    EWR764 Silver Member

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    That's a factor, but many of EWR connecting pax are transiting to/from international flights which typically command higher fares. It's difficult to determine the cause of this pricing phenomenon, whether it's a result of CO trying to drive full-fare Y travel with F as an incentive (YBM-up) or the fact that the market will not sustain high-fare premium cabin pricing.
     
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  11. tommy777
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    tommy777 Co-founder

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    Do you have the data for JFK-LAX?

    Thanks
     

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