InsideFlyer.com [English] United States InsideFlyer.uk [English] United Kingdom InsideFlyer.de [German] Germany InsideFlyer.no [Norwegian] Norway InsideFlyer.se [Swedish] Sweden InsideFlyer.dk [Danish] Denmark InsideFlyer.nl [Dutch] Benelux
Discussion in 'Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles' started by viguera, Feb 7, 2015.
Where is @redtailshark ?
Delta pulled their award chart and is telling people to use the search engine to find out the award rates.
I was wondering myself why no one was discussing it.
Feels like a lot less real discussion anymore on here which has become even worse since the native apps are broken.
But I digress.
I suspect DL sees this as the perfect time to gut the FF program. They can afford the attrition of some FF enthusiasts and low-mid value clients when gas is cheap and fares are high. I suspect they know the majority of their true HVC are not greatly influenced by FFP so they are going revenue now while they can afford to bleed a little of the rest of us.
I imagine UA is quite jealous they can't pull off the same so quickly. If DL succeeds feb 2016 will be ugly ugly for UA MP.
I'd like to believe that AA has more integrity or at least is slower to change, but that was old AA and new AA is less known.
There is so much turmoil in the world of (US) FF programs that they probably figure "one more thing" won't matter. And they may be right.
Because except for a low percentage of hardcore flyers MP's CC churners will only be concerned when they need to know when they actually try to redeem a DL award.
Coming soon ...the super-duper thread " Delta miles useless and a total rip-off I can't find out how many miles I need to get four award tickets to Paris"
Wait up! 50k BIS in the last few weeks (none of it on DL) so not watching until now. But, never fear, I'm here with my buds on the DL board....muahahahaha!
So y'all want Shark commentary and you know, I never disappoint the gallery. So buckle up.
This is not in the least surprising. It's so very predictable. Put yourself in Jeff's shoes and contemplate the SM situation....
---Shark rubs the crystal ball that sees into Virgina Ave.--------
Jeff to his acolytes: "Hmm, SM team, there are too many potentials for challenges/complaints/filings in some cases supported by conflicting info published by DL themselves. Consumers are saying, Hey! "LEVEL 1" awards never available especially from PHL to FCO. It's a scam!! Yes, they're right, it is but we'd rather our consumers not be able to document this for DoT and especially FTC and DoJ who administer anti-trust. Meanwhile, consumers are to be ripped off as much as possible with every tactic at our disposal which includes "personalized" dynamic pricing designed to gouge elites. We know that it works for revenue tickets because we use it on the suckers and - some of them anyway - they buy it. We need to apply this logic to SM and the published chart is a clear roadblock."
"In general SM has become mildly annoying in this era and is not needed to drive volume/frequency any more because we and the cabal around us are managing capacity and driving prices by silent agreement in our mutual interest. But we don't need to follow Robert Crandall's example and be convicted of talking directly with competing CEOs to price-fix, so let's implement these measures by usual stealth and when we're called out, just be brazen. We don't need to change unless there's direct DoT/DoJ pushback. Good riddance to the SM gamers once and for all and especially those DM who think they're HVC [Jeff's hyenas guffaw]! *rubs hands*
Now let's break out those Woodfords, you know, those 1.8 million miniatures we removed from the fleet and stored in the back office cabinet. *clink* Raise your miniatures, everyone, all together, toast! THAT-WAS-A-HARD-DECISION-BUT-IT-WAS-THE-RIGHT-ONE. Hooray!"
------There you have the thoughts of the Jeffster, read by the Shark crystal ball----
But this is also mildly comical. It does seem to have had the effect of pulling the blinkers off the last few remaining DL apologists' eyes.
Do you remember....the cherry blossoms in the market square
Do you remember...the DL award charts in the blogosphere
Do you remember...635k from PHL/FCO...because it's here...
The solution is straightforward and because of these developments at DL and to some extent the actions of the other two majors, eventually it will happen, but it needs a political trigger. We, the consumers, clearly now need Open Skies in the US to restore competition to what has become a three-major trust-controlled market. An influx of carriers like WS or AM or AV would be awesome, or EK positioning 380s at JFK to run to LAX and SFO would drive DL (and UA) out of every consumer's mind. Restorations to SM would be too late, once people start habitually using foreign flag carriers.
There's another aspect of the big picture that should also concern the three majors because it impacts this picture. The aircraft industry lobby that has habitually supported the US majors directly and behind the scenes is increasingly divorced from their futures. That's because their future is at very best stasis, or shrinkage, while growth occurs in foreign areas and the desires of foreign airlines to expand into the US market will be linked with the survival of the US aircraft manufacturing complex.
The US airlines are making hay now, but their sun is waning. Their actions now are priming the pump for widespread revolt against the current controlled market. DL's actions are not the only reprehensible ones but their contempt for program integrity is likely to have the effect of convincing even some of their former die-hards to look at the open skies concept.
I have an AS flight in saver I want to book on BA, for giggles I tried the route on Delta, it didn't come up but it did offer Delta flights for 45K (WAS-SEA). Much more than AS, AS or BA.
The rate they're going at sooner or later it'd be better for Americans to sign up for foreign carrier FFP's.
The race to the bottom picks up even more steam with DL's latest ignominious treatment of their FF program and loyalists...
It is a pain. And we all know that black box system (always) fails. And transparent rules helps a company stay "honest". A lot of times, honest mistakes are highlighted by end users. Internal standards, tests can never be enough (no programmer worth his salt will claim otherwise).
Having said that, I am confident folks will start writing scripts to "map" and "chart" the black box system.
As soon as I hit 4MM later this year I will be status matching/challenging to AA--all things being equal. Funny thing is, I don't redeem many awards. It's the disingenuous manner that DL is running the business that will make me make a change.
You didn't say best in class.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
True.... I know you readers are disappointed when I don't.
We have more reason than ever to believe so.... this thread illustrates the final "dawning" of DL SM mendacity on even many former apologists....
As we see, the removal of the award charts enables all sorts of new shena including targeted pricing (Medallion gouge), inability to compare award prices, dynamic pricing that increases when you search more etc. etc. This move signals even to apologists the clear intent to remove all transparency in pricing and means WARP FACTOR NINE MR SULU in Jeff's quest for FUBAR Nirvana. The rapid death spiral of SM as an incentive system even for recently-loyal DL consumers is now clear to 99% of the DL board members.
But why anyone is surprised by any of this, I can't imagine. 635k from PHL to FCO showed the nascent logic (additive pricing that corresponded to no published multiple at that time, vastly exceeding any possible combination) and that was five years ago. I see no excuses are being made now. I see the mild resigned horror. From the shark viewpoint, it is amusing to see the quick disappearance of the DL apologists' previous favorite term: "glitch," a concept aided and abetted by DL stooges and shills for years.
There is no glitch. The DL SM program has functioned and continues to function exactly the way Jeff intended it to.
Yes. Yes! That means, it is, unquestionably....
mejor en su clase
Sorry the photo isn't better but I laughed at this Delta sign I saw at LGA this week. Ironically my view was from the Admiral's Club
Delta it appears (as of today at least when I checked) has removed all ‘saver’ business on their two remaining 747 international routes (DL275/276 between DTW and NRT and DL579/578 between HNL and NRT). Not a single saver seat to end-of-schedule. This has 1x1 seating in the upper deck.
Those are not the only remaining 747 routes. I also found some saver space on DL275. I did not check the others.
You're right, I was checking as part of booking a one way trans-Pacific award from Taipei. Checking the calendar and specifying Delta only business class non-stops from TYO to DTW and HNL I'm now seeing a few dates for the 747-400 beginning in September for HNL and November for DTW, but nothing in the next six months. When I've checked before I recall seeing maybe 10-20% availability at the lowest tier scattered throughout the year. HNL in particular has had good availability in the past, now it seems more akin to ATL/JNB.
Improved award availability was supposed to be a selling point for 2015, its less easy to verify without the transparency of an award chart.