New proposed passport rules - last day to object is TODAY!

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Travel' started by Wandering Aramean, Apr 25, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    The State Department filed notice 59 days ago of an intended rule change and the creation of form DS-5513. Seems innocuous enough, right? Read the form and you might reconsider.

    The form will become part of the requirements for passport applicants. It is horribly invasive - list every address you ever lived at, every job you ever held and every school you ever attended - and those are the easier questions. If you were born at home or outside the USA then the requirements are WAY worse. Full details of the "circumstances of your birth including the names (as well as address and phone number, if available) of persons present or in attendance at your birth," are requested on the form.

    These things are open to public comment for only 60 days, meaning that today is the last day to send in your objections. Travel is a great equalizer across cultures and around the world. It deserves to be encouraged and supported, not made more difficult through onerous bureaucratic crap. Express your displeasure today by sending a quick email on the topic.

    The easiest way to do so is to email GarciaAA@state.gov. You must include the DS form number (if applicable), information collection title, and OMB control number in any correspondence. For this particular abomination those details are DS-5513 and Biographical Questionnaire for U.S. Passport; there is no OMB control number currently assigned.

    If you want to see a sample letter (the one I sent in earlier this afternoon) check out my version here: http://boardingarea.com/blogs/thewa...g-a-us-passport-about-to-become-a-lot-harder/.
     
  2. Eloy Fonseca Neto
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    Eloy Fonseca Neto Silver Member

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    OH My!!! What's that for? More Security?? In a few years we will be all prisoners of our own law system inside our homes!!!
     
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  3. RichardInSF
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    RichardInSF Silver Member

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    Damn those birthers! :):):)
     
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  4. Lufthansa Flyer
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    Lufthansa Flyer Gold Member

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    cost of doing business I guess. Passports are optional after all. Not that I like the idea, so I'll be dropping my email suggested that this is a poor direction to move in. At least you can't blame a republican administration on this addtl invasion of privacy ;).
     
  5. jmrich1432
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    jmrich1432 Silver Member

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    Wow, that is an intense form. Would this replace the form DS-82 and be used for things like name change for a passport 1+ years old? Or only for applicants who have never had a passport?

    Doesn't really matter, I am just wondering if anyone knows....

    I think I answered my own question: http://papersplease.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ds-5513-supportingstmnt.pdf

    "A. JUSTIFICATION
    1. The Biographical Questionnaire for a U.S. Passport, form DS-5513, is used to supplement an application for a U.S. passport when the applicant submits citizenship or identity evidence that is insufficient or of questionable authenticity. Passport Specialists and Consular Officers will use this form to collect additional information to further establish the identity and/or citizenship of a passport applicant who has not submitted adequate evidence with his/her passport application. "

    Looks like it will be used as a supplement and NOT as the inital application.
     
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  6. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    That is also includes home-births as "special" cases is a strange choice to me. And there is just too much data there that doesn't go to prove citizenship to make sense.
     
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  7. jmrich1432
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    jmrich1432 Silver Member

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    I think it is certainly excessive. I am wondering what will trigger this supplement for applications. Will this only be used when information cannot be verified or is conflicting? Just wondering what the actual usage will be like.

    Don't worry, I sent my email in! I definitely don't have contact information for every manager I have ever have! :)
     
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  8. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    I think this is a huge question that presents way too many opportunities for abuse. Got a last name they don't like? Automatic secondary. It could very easily be used in a manner that is not at all in the spirit of what our laws are supposed to represent.
     
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  9. thrashsoundly
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    thrashsoundly Silver Member

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    Unfortunately, I feel that this level of questioning is likely to increase for all major identity document verifications in the future.

    Last year I reapplied for a passport which was relatively easy, even with my previously expired passport (I know, shame on me) as identification.

    At the same time I had trouble applying for a new Utah drivers license under new laws hell-bent on proving birth identity (they wouldn't accept expired passports). I was born in Seoul, so it became somewhat of a beurocratic problem for me to prove I was a citizen at birth etc, just so I could drive legally in the state.

    I'm not one to normally spout political views online, but the heavily conservative state legislature here is currently caught up in the same illegal alien enforcement "problems" as Arizona, and no doubt the new laws were enacted to "help" the situation. Other than having to dig for a few more documents, it's not much of burden on the ordinary citizen/resident, but wasn't so easy for me.

    I'm not looking forward to jumping through whatever new hoops are required in 5 years when I need to renew my license. Luckily my passport will still be valid - not that I plan on letting it lapse again down the road. ;)
     
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  10. Dovster
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    Dovster Gold Member

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    A few years ago my daughter went into the American Consulate in Haifa to re-new her (expired) passport and to register for Social Security.

    The expired passport was considered valid proof of her citizenship for passport purposes but it was not for Social Security. Once the passport was renewed, however, it was sufficient for Social Security.

    That is like you not believing me if I tell you that I live in Israel, but if I tell someone else that I live here, and he repeats it to you, then it is okay.
     
  11. dayone
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    dayone Silver Member

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    I would think that one of the issues with an expired passport might be the 10+ years difference between the picture and the person.
     
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  12. Dovster
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    Dovster Gold Member

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    Had my daughter shown up a week earlier, her passport would still have been valid. Besides, if the passport was good enough to get her a new passport why wasn't it good enough to get her a Social Security number?

    (BTW, my son was able to register in Haifa for US Selective Service without any proof of identity at all.)
     
  13. Tenmoc
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    Tenmoc Gold Member

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    This was my initial reaction when I read it too.
     
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  14. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Odd, isn't it that the birthers would not actually get at those offensive Hawaiian-born persons they may wish to catch because the person in question had a mother born in Kansas, which i think was even a State then. The form asks not about the father, I note.

    This is even more severe than are the questions for naturalization. By bizarre coincidence we still have Mrs. jb's questionnaire for the US on file, so I just looked it all up. of course there were police certificates, and all addresses since birth (hers was only three pages) plus a few critically important questions, such as:
    "are you entering the United States with the intention to assassinate the President of the United States?"
    "are you entering the United States to engage in Prostitution?"

    Those are obviously reasonable questions, right? They were also only an introduction. In the interview for her and me with the INS, as it was, we were interviewed separately. She was asked "what will your husband say if we ask him what your favorite sexual practice is?" She said I would say it was none of their business. I was asked what her favorite sexual position was. I exploded, refused to answer and threatened legal action for harassment. She passed.

    Governments love power and the love intrusion. Remember the 1950's and Joe McCarthy? This passport form is not new. There has always been such intrusion.

    Strange that a country that promotes itself as the "land of the free" has fewer protections against government intrusion than do many others that make no such claim.

    I do not intend the preceding as a US political commentary. Both US political parties do this kind of thing. After all, "...protect against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Who defines what an enemy is?
     
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  15. Dovster
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    Dovster Gold Member

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    "Of course I am entering the United States to be a prostitute. I am only planning on assassinating the President in order to become famous -- well-known hookers earn a lot more than average ones."
     
  16. thewinchester
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    thewinchester Silver Member

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    I say the following of course with tongue firmly planted in cheek, but these new rules will prevent those who might embarass your country whilst travelling from doing so. :p

    But seriously, these rules smack of stupid. Who in the right mind is going to want to dedicate the better part of a day or two filling in a form that long, with so many questions which have no relevance to being issued a passport or not.

    This is a whole lot of bureacratic hokum, adding red tape and procedure to a process which should be simple. As long as you are a US citizen in good standing, can provide a reasonable amount of information to verify your bona fides, and are eligible in accordance with their treaty obligations to be issued a passport - what's the problem.

    Thank christ the application processes are straight forward and simple in Australia. The only exception to this is when federally permitted data match laws turn up a problem 6yrs after issue and they don't tell you about it - forcing you to re-apply for your passport in full next time around.

    Nothing serious thankfully, just that the State of Victoria's births, deaths and marriages computer system hasn't been fix in 10yrs, and Passports Aust. couldn't match my birth certificate electronically, and didn't bother looking into it any further (which was easy since the original copy they had of the certificate was held digitally on file, and it wouldn't have taken much to retrieve and perform the match manually).
     
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  17. jmrich1432
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    jmrich1432 Silver Member

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