New HHonors Rewards - Points & Money, Upgrade & Premium Rooms

Discussion in 'Hilton | HHonors' started by RestlessLocationSyndrome, Oct 11, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. RestlessLocationSyndrome
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    RestlessLocationSyndrome Silver Member

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  2. dc3
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    dc3 Silver Member

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  3. deant
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    deant Milepoint Guide

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    One of the "details" is that resorts can now claim that all of their rooms are "Premium" rooms and charge 3 or 4 times the standard rates. See the thread on Moorea, Bora Bora and Paris ADT to get a good look at what Premium rooms cost. Remember that all of these used to be 50K per night and less with the VIP / AXON discounts.

    http://milepoint.com/forums/threads/hilton-bora-bora-and-moorea.19701/#post-843108

    Also, remember that if you go for a "premium" room you no longer get the VIP or AXON discount so if you are staying multiple nights the increase is a lot more than just what is shown on the booking page.
     
  4. RestlessLocationSyndrome
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    RestlessLocationSyndrome Silver Member

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    Of course, the hope is that Hilton is not going to be lax in their categorization of hotels and rooms. Even less knowledgeable travelers can see that HHonors has one of the lowest point valuations out there and many were already deterred from HHonors even before this move.

    If this move is viewed by the average person as even more dilutive to the already weak value of point redemptions, then I believe that we'll see tons of actual travelers switch away from the Hilton brand leaving the rooms to those who just utilize their credit cards to earn points.
     
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  5. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    You are of course entitled to your opinion but if you are going to repeat this statement (multiple times) or similar
    I would hope you would actually check the facts before posting.:rolleyes:

    FACT: I selected five (and only five ) random dates at the ADT one of the hotels you mentioned.
    11/1-3, 11/15-18, 12/1-2 and 12/15-18 and then 5/1-3 2012
    EVERY ONE of the above dates had awards listed for the standard 50k per night.
    Odd isnt it?

    Just couldnt be bothered to waste my time checking other properties.
     
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  6. deant
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    deant Milepoint Guide

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    A couple of months ago ADT had all rooms as premium. However since that time they have revised the award requirements and now have standard awards. My comment relative to the ADT was more about the incremental cost of "Premium" rooms. Also, ADT is not a resort.

    Please look at Hilton Bora Bora and Moorea and you will see what I am talking about.
     
  7. Casey Friday
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    Casey Friday Silver Member

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    Well, it looks like my Water Villa in the Maldives still has standard room awards (50K) in the off season. That's good, too, because some of the other rooms' "premium" awards are upwards of a million points a night! Yikes!

    That said, I really hope they don't take away the standard awards any time soon... or at least until my wife and I have a nice holiday there next summer.
     
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  8. Explore
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    Explore Silver Member

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    So we're looking at the Hilton Auckland, which is the most expensive hotel in town. Standard award is available most nights (50K with no Points and Money option of course), but HH is peddling the higher-value "guaranteed" premium rooms at extra points cost, which I will never book. All the rooms with decent views are in the higher harbor view category. So, what are the chances of scoring an upgrade without volunteering more points? For that matter, how likely is it at any HH property these days?
     
  9. Toula
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    Toula Gold Member

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    Well I have been checking the ADT and this is what I am finding.





    DATES​
    POINTS PER NIGHT


    Nov 08 TueNov 11 Fri
    [​IMG]

    Nov 09 WedNov 12 Sat
    From 160,629 points

    Nov 10 ThuNov 13 Sun
    From 60,778 points

    Nov 11 FriNov 14 Mon
    From 60,778 points

    Nov 12 SatNov 15 Tue
    From 60,778 points

    Nov 13 SunNov 16 Wed
    [​IMG]

    Nov 14 MonNov 17 Thu
    [​IMG]

    Nov 15 TueNov 18 Fri
    [​IMG]

    Nov 16 WedNov 19 Sat
    [​IMG]

    Nov 17 ThuNov 20 Sun
    From 160,629 points


     
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  10. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    The Paris ADT is one of the most popular for redeeming awards in the HH portfolio am I correct in stating the obvious that we are relatively only a few days away from those dates right?

    1) Have you previously redeemed or actually seen ANY regular awards at the ADT on such a short notice?
    2) To some the 60k+ awards are better than none at all.

    When I last checked there were standard 50K award available at this property at 60 of the almost 100 nights during the months of August/Sept/Oct 2012

    One can always find examples to bolster a point of view :)
     
  11. deant
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    deant Milepoint Guide

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    You are correct. However, if you are looking for 4 nights, you only have 31 days out of those 3 months where you can check in and get 4 nights (AXON type award for 145K points or 36.25K per night). The rest of the 4 night check in opportunities are a MINIMUM of 60K per night up to over 200K per night.
     
  12. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    Soooooo it does appear that either members are unable to come up with even a few examples of the massive devalution to end all devaluations to which you are alluding or nay.. trumpting or alternately there is not that much interest :D oh well... then end result for all prctical purposes is just the very same. :)
     
  13. JLSocks
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    JLSocks Silver Member

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    This change is either a silent devaluation of the program as desired by Corporate or Corporate doesn't have enough control over what the individual properties are doing. This may not be happening massively across all properties, but it is finding its way into more than just the French Polynesia properties and the Paris ADT property. I just noticed that the Hilton Vienna Danube has standard 2 Queen room over New Years as 24K points per night (VIP discount) or 189 euros per night. Yet the standard King room, which is also priced out at the same 189 euros per night is being peddled as a premium redemption at 62,604 points per night. That is just ridiculous.

    Sadly, I think more and more of the international properties will be pulling crap like this, and I honestly think Corporate doesn't care.
     
  14. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    Frankly I just dont buy the ADT story and I believe I have refuted the contention of some posters( or variations thereof as such) at least twice on these boards.
    Personally I wonder if some here have actually tried to redeem awards at that property in the recent past.

    The ADT being one of HHs most popular award destinations has always been at times not an easy award procurement.
    Its somewhat amusing to see some the following statements repeated and elsewhere ad nauseum ....all of which are
    patently incorrect.
    a) "No 50k awards available" when I last checked and the only period searched.. I found awards on 60 of about 100 days during Summer/Fall 2012.
    b) "Not awards availlable for multiple days" "no AXON awards available in May 2012" etc etc
    Checked month in question found AXON on May 18-21st plus two other 3 day awards.
    c) Not for the life on me can I see the relevance between award availabilty and the respective room rate is but if the
    selected audience is wlling to buy such a tenious connection hey why not repeat it over and over.

    Its a bit ironic that HH members have be asking for the ability for reserve in advance award rooms otther than the vanilla Standard room ..yet they acceded..but all one can hear now are complaints :).. do you all expect to get those ugraded rooms for free?. So what if the upgraded room is now 62k??:rolleyes: lets face it an additional 12k HH points can barely get into a Cat 1 or whatever they call it now.
     
  15. JLSocks
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    JLSocks Silver Member

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    First off, I can't speak to the ADT first hand, only what I've read many others here and on the other board speak to. I was providing another data point about a different property in Vienna, that like the properties in FP, are suddenly making previously standard rooms now premium rooms and charging an outrageous sum of points for doing so.

    Secondly, I think it's great (in theory) to allow members to reserve a non-standard room if they so choose. Other programs do the same thing and it's especially nice for the person that wants to be sure they get the room with an ocean view or whatever. What I take issue with, and what I think others take issue with, is HHonor's implementation of the new benefit and the corresponding exorbitant increase in points required to get these rooms.

    My example for the Vienna Danube queen room at 24k points a night over New Year's to the king room (again, formally a standard room and being charged out at the same pay rate as the queen room) at over 62K points per night is ridiculous. It's more than a 158% increase in points for the "premium" room that is really nothing more than a standard room. If you look at the cost for an actual premium room at the same hotel, it's an even more ridiculous point increase.

    By comparison, I ended up booking a room at the Le Meridien in Vienna because the room upgrade there (an actual room upgrade) was only a 10% increase in the standard room cost. Hyatt and Marriott both offer room upgrades on award stays for reasonable point increases as well (roughly 15% to 25%) and not like Hiltons that seem to range anywhere from 50% increase in points required to upwards of 200%.

    If this is truly Hilton's intent with the new benefit, then that's their prerogative and their business decision. That doesn't mean we need to like it or deal with it. If I keep noticing this, I will be moving my business and personal travel to competing programs. I've already started doing that for the last 2 months and am monitoring for next year.
     
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  16. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    [quote="JLSocks, post: 937496
    My example for the Vienna Danube queen room at 24k points a night over New Year's to the king room (again, formally a standard room and being charged out at the same pay rate as the queen room) at over 62K points per night is ridiculous. It's more than a 158% increase in points for the "premium" room that is really nothing more than a standard room. If you look at the cost for an actual premium room at the same hotel, it's an even more ridiculous point increase.

    [/quote]

    I am pleased to see you have taken the tack of doing whats best for you ...which would be my recommendation to any and everybody in just about all facets of life:)
    The question of pre-procuring an upgraded room doesnt much interest me anyway (perhaps since I normally book Standard Room awards and I have enjoyed an almost 90% upgrade success on my HH stays anyway)
    But I put to you that you and others parrotting this line have not provided (and frankly I doubt you could ever find such) any hard evidence regarding the conclusions you seems to have managed to arrive at above.

    Most of the postings here on the topic have for the most part been based on emotion, incorrect conclusions and some pretty tenuous connection to the facts.:)
     
  17. JLSocks
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    JLSocks Silver Member

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    I don't particularly care for paying for the guaranteed upgraded room either, as I've historically just done the standard room and taken my chances at the upgrade and gotten it most of the time.

    Perhaps some people are being emotional about it, but I can't see how you can say that everyone is coming to incorrect conclusions because they differ from your opinion/conclusions.

    Please tell me how it incorrect to say it is some sort of devaluation that a room previously classified as a standard room award (i.e., base level 2 queen bed room and 1 king bed room) is now being treated at as a premium room because it has 1 king bed instead of 2 queen beds, and thereby the hotel or HHonors is asking for a 158% premium over the standard room award cost? Especially, when said rooms are both being charged out at the same paid cost, as they always have been b/c they were the same standard class of room previously.

    I'm not saying, and I think most people aren't saying, that all of the Hilton properties around the world are doing this. There is definitely evidence that all of them aren't, but there is evidence that a number of them have started doing ridiculous things like this. There's not a lot of it on this board, but there is a rather lengthy discussion of it on the other board.
     
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  18. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    And thats part of the argument I am afraid I just cannot agree on.

    I am not sure anyone here or elsewhere has ever been able to even to a limited extent been able to demonstrate a feel for how HH assigns award rooms.
    Award room catagories are designated "King Hilton guest room" or "Queen Hilton guest room" etc etc (although in Europe there appears to be not a lot of Queen Hiton guest rooms... mostly King and Twin Hilton guest rooms)

    Logic would say certain amount of say Queen bedded rooms and a certain amount of King bedded rooms are set aside for awards. If members have reserved all the King award inventory then only Queens would be logically available right?

    So I did a bit of checking selected random period of March 13-16, 2011 ( well not quite random .. my wifes birthday is March 13th ) and checking a few of the HH members more popular European properties.

    Conrad Brussels standard awards available for both King and Twin Hilton guest rooms.
    Budapest Castle Hilton standard awards available for both King and Twin guest rooms PLUS both King and Twin Danube View PREMIUM rooms at 34304 points ie less than the 35k standard awards
    Cavalieri standard awards available for both King and Twin guest rooms
    Hiton Sorrento standard awards available for both King and Twin guest rooms PLUS Triple and Quadruple Premium Family Rooms at 42821 and 44950 points respectively.. surprise, surprise these are less than the standard 50k awards.

    And finally please let us not even bother to reference the mostly pretty confused/plain silly rants/devoid of much logic/gross distortions in a fair amount of the postings on that other board.:rolleyes:
     
  19. deant
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    deant Milepoint Guide

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    I now understand where you are coming from however you have a major error in your logic. If you look at the Hilton website, they state:
    "No Blackout Dates
    Fact: If there’s a standard room available at any Hilton Family hotel or resort worldwide, you can redeem points for it. No exceptions, no fine print. It’s that simple."

    Quote is from: https://www.hiltonhhonors.com/landingpages/nobods.aspx

    By redefining the "standard" room, they have eliminated a significant pool of rooms that can be booked for awards. Other people have been told that the FP properties ARE utilizing capacity controls and that is the reason that a standard room can be reserved for cash yet not for points. So what some of the hotels are doing is directly against what Hilton has published on their website, and is, to me, a significant devaluation of the program. It has opened the door for any hotel to do what they want with regards to award availability.
     
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