Nested Ticket Questions

Discussion in 'American Airlines | AAdvantage' started by ballardFlyer, Jan 23, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. ballardFlyer

    ballardFlyer Gold Member

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    I read several nested ticket threads on other forums and searched here on MP.

    They were all helpful, but I have a specific question about nested tickets when the 2nd ticket has a shared hub connection but a unique destination. I'm pretty sure I have this right, but I wanted to verify with the community that this scenario is ok.

    My scenario looks like this:

    Ticket 1: Fly AAA-BBB-XXX
    Ticket 2: Fly XXX-BBB-CCC
    Ticket 2: Fly CCC-BBB-XXX
    Ticket 1: Fly XXX-BBB-AAA

    AAA and CCC are distinct locations and are not co-terminals. I need to come back to CCC part way through a longer trip and it routes through the same hub (BBB) as for AAA.

    I'm wondering if having the same connecting hub (BBB) on both tickets counts as back to back ticketing per AA T&Cs or if the two distinct end points are what actually matter and this is just fine?

    Thank you in advance!
     
  2. DestinationDavid
    Original Member

    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

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    Do the fare rules for your AAA-BBB-XXX have a minimum stay requirement? If so, what is it?

    AA.com says:

    Back to Back Ticketing: The combination of two or more roundtrip excursion fares end to end for the purpose of circumventing minimum stay requirements.

    So it's really about the fare requirement.
     
  3. ballardFlyer

    ballardFlyer Gold Member

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    I have to open them up on ExpertFlyer to check here.

    My real question I guess is if the min stay is violated if go to a different destination though?
     
  4. DestinationDavid
    Original Member

    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

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    It's hard to say really because there isn't tons of information on these types of issues besides people giving their opinions. If people have direct experiences with getting caught in these types of issues there doesn't seem to be too many who are publically sharing their experiences.

    I think it could go either way.

    Since you aren't returning to AAA on your 2nd booked ticket, this appears pretty safe. Many people booked these types of tickets as positioning flights for MR deals, etc. Not dangerous and I think it might fall here.

    However, I can still see a case for it being considered back to back ticketing. Just because you don't return directly to your origin doesn't mean AA might not view this as an attempt to avoid a minimum stay requirement. I haven't seen many people testify on their experiences with this type of ticketing.

    This might be easier if you posted actual airports. If you're flying LAX-LHR-MAD on the first ticket, and then MAD-LHR-JNB it might be easier to make the case for end to end ticketing.

    If you're flying JFK-ORD-LHR on the first ticket, and LHR-ORD-BOS on the 2nd, that might appear a bit different.

    Also, have you priced out booking this as a multi-city instead? Could avoid the issue all together.
     
  5. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    Your case does not constitute a back-to-back ticketing violation. As a concrete example of what you wish to do:

    #1: LGA-ORD-SEA
    #2: SEA-ORD-MSP
    #2: MSP-ORD-SEA
    #1: SEA-ORD-LGA

    because the destinations are different cities. The following would be a back-to-back ticketing violation

    #1: LGA-ORD-SEA -- Mon this week
    #2: SEA-ORD-LGA -- Wed this week
    #2: LGA-ORD-SEA -- Mon next week
    #1: SEA-ORD-LGA -- Wed next week

    because (a) destination cities are the same but the tickets are just in opposite directions, and (b) it attempts to circumvent the minimum stay requirement by booking 2 tickets that seem to include a weekend but really do not because you get to travel weekdays by leaving on one ticket and returning on the other (as opposed to leaving/returning on the same ticket, which would force you to have to come back the following week).
     
  6. DestinationDavid
    Original Member

    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

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    Is there language somewhere that you can point to that shows AA accepts that ticketing to an alternate city is not considered "intending to circumvent the minimum stay requirement"? I can't find any which is why I find it hard to give an absolute "Yes/No" like you have.
     
  7. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    I have no other info other than what I know back-to-back ticketing to mean...Checking Wikipidia....aha:

    Back-to-Back Ticketing

    In back-to-back ticketing, a traveler wants to make two round trips midweek. Airlines typically charge more for midweek round trips than trips that involved a Saturday night stay. This ploy allows the traveler to book two round-trip tickets with Saturday stays even though the actual travel is all midweek. If a business traveler wanted to make two round trips from New York to Los Angeles in two consecutive weeks, the traveler could book a round trip leaving New York Monday of week 1 and returning to New York Friday of week 2. Then the traveler could book a second round trip ticket in the opposite direction, leaving Los Angeles on Friday of week 1 and return to Los Angeles Monday of week 2. In week 1, the traveler flies the first leg of the first ticket, then returns home on the first leg of the second ticket. The following week the traveler flies from New York to Los Angeles again, this time on the second leg of the second ticket, and finally returns to New York on the second leg of the first ticket.
    If both tickets are purchased from the same airline, or two airlines that are part of the same alliance, then the strange departure patterns are likely to be flagged and the traveler will be punished.

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_booking_ploys
     
  8. DestinationDavid
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    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

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    I didn't need a definition of back to back ticketing since that's pretty easy to identify if you've been on MP/FT for any length of time or even read AA.com. All those are what I used for my thoughts on why the OP could be in the clear and why AA might view things different above.

    I personally feel that if we are going to be giving definitive "Yes, you're clear, no issues" statements that we should be able to back it up with supporting info/references. A Wikipedia article or FFer opinions on MP/FT aren't solid footing, so they should come with a caveat of "It's a vague area, buyer beware".
     
  9. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    I hope the definition would help some who might not be as familiar, but it seems to me that the definitive answer from AA could be obtained by simply posing the question to AA CSR. Based on the standard definition of back-to-back ticketing, the OP's itinerary is NOT in violation because the destination cities are different. It is a situation that arises a lot, whereby one must come back to a hub to go to another city because there is no way around it...
     
  10. DestinationDavid
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    It actually sounds like we aren't disagreeing on the situation itself because as I mentioned above I think the OP is in the clear.

    I just don't feel comfortable with an unequivocal "Yes" without anything firmer than common experience and interpretation. I'm probably overly cautious! :)
     
  11. ballardFlyer

    ballardFlyer Gold Member

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    Agreed with you both on the text book definition of b2b. It seemed like this was ok, but I really value having some other eyes and perspectives to review it.
     

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