Name Major Cities that Have Hyatt Properties but No Hilton or Marriott Properties

Discussion in 'Hyatt | Gold Passport' started by NYCUA1K, Aug 4, 2013.  |  Print Topic

  1. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    A general consensus seems to be that one of Hyatt's main shortcomings as an international hotel chain compared to the other major chains is their relatively limited number of properties around the world (~500 vs. 3.9K+** Hilton properties or 3.7K+** Marriott properties). Well, I may just have figured out Hyatt's strategy for addressing this shortcoming: they try to get established in major cities in which the other major and bigger chains have little or no presence.

    ** Edited, as the numbers were an order of magnitude off.

    Exhibit #1: Although I had enough HH points to redeem free reward stays at Hilton properties in N & SE Asia last year, I found myself staying on revenue at Hyatt properties in Taipei, Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon), and Jakarta, because Hilton had no presence whatsoever in those three cities, while there was a Hyatt in each (Park Hyatt Saigon, Grand Hyatt Tapei, Grand Hyatt Jakarta). A coincidence? I now have my doubt because I just found a couple more places where there are Hyatt properties but no Hilton presence!

    Exhibit #2: Off and on over the past week, I have been planning the itinerary for my annual year-end Asian escapade(tm) and, while it is still a work-in-progress, I have come up with the itinerary shown in the figure below, which also shows hotels where I am considering staying at each destination.

    [​IMG]

    Expecting to end up with about 700K HHonors points this year, I had intended to redeem reward stays (standard or Cash+Points) at high-end Hilton properties (W=A, Conrad) in the depicted cities (PVG, MNL, DPS, BKK, PHN, HKG). Searching for Hilton properties in those cities revealed that Hilton has no presence at all in Manila or in all of Cambodia, whereas there is a Hyatt Regency & Casino in MNL and the brand new Park Hyatt Siem Reap in Cambodia, though a bit off from PHN. Although there is a Marriott in MNL, room rates there are higher than at the Hyatt Regency, and I could not find a Marriott property in Cambodia. So, even though I would have preferred to redeem reward stays at Hilton or do a revenue stay at a Marriott property because the MAR Gold Elite benefits are better than those of my Hyatt GP Plat, I find myself, once more, planning to stay at a Hyatt property, the Hyatt Regency and Casino in Manila. It won't be too bad because I earned 2 free suite upgrades and 2 free nights when I got the Chase Hyatt visa card, which I plan to redeem before they expire by (a) booking 2 revenue nights in a standard room and upgrading it a suite with the 2 free suite upgrades and then (b) booking 2 free nights from the Hyatt CC, for a total of 4 nights (who knows? Maybe I can talk the manager into letting me stay in the suite the entire time!).

    I plan to spend 2 nights in PHN but I will need to find a nice local hotel because the new Park Hyatt Siem Reap is too far off to be practical for just a couple of nights. Had it been in PHN, I would have found myself staying there, probably using my 2 free nights from the Hyatt CC, since the rates there are rather steep. For the rest of my destinations, I will redeem HH points or use Points+Cash for reward stays at the Conrad (HKG* (*edited), DPS, BKK) and W=A (PVG).

    The preceding made me wonder about which other major cities around world may have Hyatt properties but little or no Hilton or Marriott presence. Most of those that I have found are in N or SE Asia
    • Taipei, Taiwan
    • Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
    • Jakarta, Indonesia
    • Manila, Philippines
    • Siem Reap, Cambodia
    All major and/or capital cities.

    Can you think of other major cities that have a Hyatt property but no Hilton and/or Marriott properties? It could be very informative...;)
     
  2. mattsteg
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    mattsteg Gold Member

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    It all depends on what you want to call major. A few cities of interest to me:
    Mendoza, AR (plus PH in Auenos Aires)
    Marrakech (Marriott/RC also has properties in the works)
    Nice/Cannes have no Hilton but are covered by Marriott
    Dar es Salaam, Tanzania - Hilton but no marriott
    Kathmandu, Nepal


    I'm not sure that this would mean anything more than that expansion into growing markets makes good business sense, as does acquiring/flagging existing hotels in more mature markets. Also, if a market tends to support ~1 big international chain hotel, the odds are good that whichever one is there will be the only one. There are doubtless others both expected and unexpected.
     
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  3. brucewil

    brucewil Silver Member

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    Sounds like a Diamond trial is in your future.
     
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  4. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    Most of the large chains are thinking or have already drawn up plans to establish properties in those N and SE Asian cities that I'd listed as currently having none of their properties, whereas Hyatt does. The point here is that things are not supposed to be like that, considering how ubiquitous Hilton or Marriott, with 35K+ properties each, is worldwide. In the recent discussion about the OP who was disappointed with Hyatt, even the chain's supporters had listed the limited number of Hyatt properties as a shortcoming. Conversely, I would have thought that I should have a host of choices for redeeming HH points at these international capital cities (that is one definition of 'major'; there are very few people who have not yet heard of these cities)
    • Taipei, Taiwan
    • Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
    • Jakarta, Indonesia
    • Manila, Philippines
    and, yet, there is not a single Hilton property in any of them. Because I am interested in visiting those cities, I must incur a lot more out of pocket expenses in order to fulfill that interest, and, again, it was not supposed to be like that. Lastly, having an idea of how pervasive this Hyatt-has but Hilton-doesn't-have situation is would, at least anecdotally, support my thesis that the situation is completely of Hyatt's making: they are targeting those cities where they will not have to compete head-to-head with the bigger chains, thereby drawing "high value" guests to their properties, which I'd already said are "tastefully done" -- witness my staying on revenue at these Hyatt properties...
    GRAND-HYATTs.jpg
    ... with loads of HH points in the bank, simply because there was no Hilton property in sight!:(
     
  5. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    There is a Marriott in Manila: http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/mnlap-manila-marriott-hotel/
    Ditto for HCMC: http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/sgnbr-renaissance-riverside-hotel-saigon/
    Jakarta has a JW Marriott and two Ritz-Carltons, plus an Executive Apartments property.

    It may be true that the Hilton family of properties is underrepresented in these cities but it is not clear why you're suggesting Marriott also is.
     
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  6. mattsteg
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    mattsteg Gold Member

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    I think this is a good reminder that no program has universal coverage, and either splitting your loyalties or ditching loyalty alltogether can be beneficial.

    It's quite easy (and desirable) to end up places where none of the main players have properties or the selection of other properties better suits your needs - even with big footprint programs. The programs have value, but always be sure that they are working for you rather than vice versa.
     
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  7. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    The post speaks for itself. My first-hand experience was with Hilton last year in TPE, SGN and CGK (did not look for MAR then), and this week with 2 more cities with no Hilton, one with no Marriott (PHN) and one with a Marriott ( MNL) w/ higher room rates. Then I posed a general question, which included Marriott but claimed nothing other than what I said above, to try to find out more.
     
  8. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    I believe two of your numbers are off by an order of magnitude each.
     
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  9. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    :p Good catch! With such numbers, I should definitely be able to find a Hilton property even in Timbuktu to redeem my loads of HH points! Therefore, I wonder whether the error isn't my Freudian perception of how big Hilton and Marriott are compared to Hyatt, further stressing the magnitude of my puzzlement...:D
     
  10. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    Nah, I ain't even tempted because Diamond ist alles and the lack of the option in GP to make Diamond on base points is totally incompatible with my pattern of travel of few but extended stays. With 4 such stays remaining for the year, I am now at 81K HH points in just 9 nights. At that pace, I estimate that I will hit the 120K base points required to make HH Diamond in 12-13 stays, which is about half the number of stays needed to make Diamond in GP.

    HH-ELITE-STATUS.png
    The relative costs: At 10 base points/$, the cost to make HH Diamond is $12K/yr, meaning that making GP Diamond could cost me $20K+/per year, unless I altered my pattern of travel -- an impossibility since my travel is tied to my work, which pays for nearly all of it. The figure also shows why I am just slightly frustrated at having to do revenue stays at non-Hilton properties during my personal travel: I will haul in record HH points this year!

    BTW, the flexibility to make HH Diamond on nights, stays or base points is not the only reason why a GP Diamond trial is not tempting, but that horse has now been beaten nearly to death, including very recently.
     
  11. skyvan

    skyvan Gold Member

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    Only one I can think of off the top of my head would be Mendoza.
     
  12. brucewil

    brucewil Silver Member

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    With the Diamond trial, you get immediate status. You only need 12 nights in 60 days to keep your Diamond status through February of the following year. As it sounds like you will staying at Hyatt properties on your upcoming trip anyway, why not take advantage of their generosity? Just sayin...

    Also, not quite sure of your math. $20K for 50 nights equals an average per night of $400. Sounds kind of high to me. I can make HH Diamond by spending $40K on my credit card. Cost $800. (2% on the same spend on a cashback card) and if any of that is for Hilton stays or supermarket spend the value of the points earned easily exceeds that $800.
     
  13. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    Can't serve two "masters" at the same time 'cause I will wind up serving none. Two Diamond statuses do me no good. I can get the Hyatt Diamond status with a trial but then I would need to requalify it. However, I have already said that I cannot do more than the 12-13 nights that I am doing to make HH Diamonds. So, the trial seems to me like a meaningless exercise. Moreover, I am already on the record saying the HHonors loyalty program is superior to GP, even at the Diamond level. So, why would I bother going after a GP Diamond status? Despite my grumbling above, I am still happy with HHonors. I will be staying in 6 cities and there are high-end Hilton properties in 4 of them; that is not so bad...
    I am averaging about $270/night at Hilton, and Hyatt properties tend to be a bit pricier. In any case, the math will depend on one's travel pattern. People who do a whole bunch of one-nighters will accumulate stays in a hurry, whereas those who average 3-4 nights/stay but infrequently will not accumulate the stays as fast, but their spend (and number of base points) goes up a lot faster. I will concede, however, that with proper and strategic planning, it should be possible to make GP Diamond for less than $20K based on the number of nights, even for my pattern of travel. Making it on base points is straightforward: a flat $12K spend does it. Making Diamond by spending $40K on a CC would make sense to me only if the spend were going to happen regardless, because for $40K one can make HH Diamond for three years in a row...
     
  14. brucewil

    brucewil Silver Member

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    [/quote][/QUOTE]

    I wasn't suggesting that you try to keep the Diamond status, only that you would get the immediate benefit of it with the trial since you had the planned stays anyway. . I guess I was being too subtle.
     
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  15. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    Got it. I will stay just 4 nights at Hyat Regency Manila, two of which will be in a suite, so that the added benefit of being Diamond will be minimal. I am a CC-based Hyatt Plat, so that I will get free internet access, which is a must for me. It will be a revenue stay, which will add some points to the ~20K points I now have in my GP account, since I will pay for the stay with the Hyatt visa (x3/$ spent on the premises) and get 15% bonus points on base...
     
  16. Pizzaman
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    Pizzaman Co-founder

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    I was talking to Jeff Zidell, VP of Hyatt Gold Passport recently. He said something like, "Hyatt has more properties in it's pipeline than it's main competitors." Not an exact quote. If that's true, it's likely they're not considering the 152nd low-revenue property in a market like Williamsburg, VA. As a company that owns a larger percentage of their hotels, I would expect them to be focusing places where they can maximize revenue. Emerging markets without a lot of competition sounds like a good strategy to me.
     
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  17. mattsteg
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    mattsteg Gold Member

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    With or without competition, emerging/growing markets are a great place to focus growth, especially once you consider your coverage in more established markets at least adequate. Adding properties in places where other programs lack also improves attractiveness to those who participate in multiple programs "Hyatt isn't everywhere, but where they are they have great properties, plus they're also in some interesting destinations that other chains are not".

    The quality of Hyatt properties and their presence in some emerging markets that greatly interest me certainly does quite a bit to make the brand appeal to me.
     
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  18. Sean Colahan
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    Sean Colahan Gold Member

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    There is a Grand Hyatt in Santiago, but no Hilton....don't know about Marriott properties.
     
  19. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    I agree with those comments. Since there are many aspects of the HHonors program that I like a lot (meaning I will stick with them as my top frequent-guest program), and I am not likely to make both HH Diamond and GP Diamond at the same time (elite status recognition in the loyalty industry matters a great deal to me), Hyatt's attractiveness to me as a participant in multiple programs would definitely skyrocket if they could just beef up the benefits for GP Plats to be about equal to those of HH or MAR Golds (free breakfast, upgrades to premium rooms, lounge access even with the caveat that one must first be upgraded), especially with their apparent strategy to have presence in emerging markets that Hilton seems too slow to start covering...
     
  20. brucewil

    brucewil Silver Member

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    Since its a revenue stay, you could have all 4 nights CONFIRMED in a suite as one of the Diamond benefits and have a 30% VS 15% bonus on the points. You would also be entitled to the Diamond amenity of either the 1000 points or whatever the other food and beverage options are. I love the full breakfast option available in the restaurant.

    It costs you nothing to take the Diamond Trial and you get lots of perks. I have seen you compare Hilton and Hyatt in the past. Why not experience first hand what Hyatt members are saying. I am Diamond in both, but wont be able to keep Hyatt status much longer. I don't travel enough for business, I just spend a lot so I'm able to keep my Hilton status! Lol.

    Both programs have advantages and disadvantages.
     
  21. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    I appreciate the suggestion. However, because it is a one-time deal, I do not feel compelled. I will have 2 nights confirmed in a suite, and hope that they will just agree to let me stay put in there for all four nights, if the property is not overbooked. Breakfast would be nice but I often wind up buying my own on leisure travel because I tend to stay up late and also sleep, which is likely to happen. The associated incidental costs will add points to my account as well (as you know, such points on incidentals count toward elite qualification in HHonors). On business trip, breakfast is a must...

    BTW, is this GP Diamond trial, which I presume is different from a Diamond Challenge, allowed for GP Plats?
     
  22. brucewil

    brucewil Silver Member

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    Yes a Diamond trial is different from a Diamond Challenge. Hyatt doesn't do a challenge.

    Yes, Platinums or anyone for that matter can do a trial. The trial exists to allow you to see the benefits of Diamond. Hyatt probably figures that once you see how well they treat their Diamonds, that you will be addicted like crack cocaine. Lol. My experience so far has been great. We have had suite upgrades on every stay and have really enjoyed the great free breakfasts.
     
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  23. Singapore Flyer

    Singapore Flyer Silver Member

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    Depending on what is considered being "in" a major city, I would say Hilton has a very limited footprint in Paris. Currently staying at the PH Vendome but I checked all the other chains that I had points to use and Hilton only offered the two at the respective airports, one in La Defense and one at Versailles which isn't quite being in Paris. La Defense is akin to being in Queens (I live there) to Manhattan. Versailles is a 30 minute car ride into Paris.

    Sent from my iPhone using milepoint
     
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  24. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    Yes, the Trianon Versailles is a super luxury W=A collection hotel. A distance of 30 min by car isn't terrible, but one does not stay at the Trianon on a routine tourist trip to Paris! Does Hyatt have properties other than the Vendome in Paris?

    BTW, I would call Paris a 'major' city.:D
     
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  25. mattsteg
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    mattsteg Gold Member

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    I left out paris due to marriott's presence, but especially since the adt deflagged a big weakness for hilton and relative strength for hyatt, especially after their french expansion via acquisition.
     
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