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Discussion in 'Air Canada | Aeroplan' started by igloocoder, Oct 23, 2013.
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http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busi...don flights after Edmonton/9074487/story.html
I agree with AC's business decision. YEG gave subsidies to Icelandic on a route that appears to be barely profitable for AC. Any business would react the same way when treated in a such an uncivilized manner. YEG airport has had a history of screwing up relations with carriers from what I've been told.
The other factor that might play into lower Europe traffic from YEG is the fact AC now operates 3 nonstop flights ex YMM to YYZ with good connections to LHR and other destinations.
Fares are high enough w/o having to subsidize people in Edmonton.
Barely profitable for AC doesn't mean it can't be profitable for another airline.
And I haven't seen or read if or how much YEG is giving in subsidies to FI so as usual until you can provide proof it's just your opinion.
It has just been confirmed to me that:
A. AC barely makes money on YEG/LHR even in peak season because the premium fare traffic is not sufficient.
B. AC is aware that Icelandic is going to get a subsidy from YEG airport and AC is PO'ed about it.
Let flaming begin from the "cognosci". My facts will stand up
To be quite honest, the YEG-LHR flight was really only good for OD traffic anyways. Making connection on *A flights at LHR will only get you to other *A hubs. Try taking YEG-LHR-CDG. An airport needs to be added between LHR and CDG. No *A flights that I'm aware of operate on that route. So YEG-KEF-CDG or YEG-LHR-FRA-CDG. I'm pretty sure I know which of those will win out when the huddled masses from out west start contemplating a holiday. This is true for many of the airports that FI services out of KEF. The difference in those routes are in the hard product. If you're flying up front, AC has a nicer product (pods vs recliners). Based on the aircraft AC had on the route, FI wins in the middle because they will service the routes with a Premium Economy product. In the back...well..narrow body 3x3 vs wide body 2x3x2. Not sure how people choose in that case.
And yes I know YEG-YYZ-CDG is an option, but people out here in the west deplore (sometimes justifiably, sometimes not) YYZ. I can see a certain amount of them taking the KEF connection over YYZ just because of the perception that YYZ (not just the airport) is a mess to deal with. I've connected in KEF 2x on FI flights and it was a pleasure both times. The airport is small, well maintained, and aesthetically pleasing. The lounges are more than adequate to the point of being better than an MLL in my mind. Add the possibility for to spend a couple days in Iceland on your holiday at no extra flight charge and people will start considering the option seriously.
It has been long known that YEG-LHR was one of the easiest upgrades around. That suggests a lack of premium cabin support for the flight.
To be honest, losing AC on this route only sucks if you want to end up in London. If you're trying to get anywhere else in Europe the FI option is much better. And having flown them YYZ-KEF-OSL return once, their service can stand up to anyone's in the premium cabin. The hard product is a bit weak though.
I suspect YEG will see more service to overseas location from foreign airlines than it ever will from AC. AC has a huge interest in forcing Northern Alberta fliers to YYC/YYZ/YVR since those are traffic hubs.
That is indeed true. As noted above I have seen many travellers from YMM take the NS to YYZ and then connect to Europe. AC is looking at a YYZ/ Grande Prairie flight as well as YMM. You then get the picture that YEG is really not a hub at all and any other smaller centres are effectively routed to YYC or YVR as the case maybe. So, for YEG to invite FI to compete with AC while they have been trying to build traffic for some time gives AC an excuse to use the metal on more lucrative routings. They might even beef up YYC with more long haul destinations as they now do LHR, FRA and NRT. In fact with the numbers of YYC fliers going to the oil patches of the middle east I could see them possibly doing IST some day with good cnx to many places in the region. There were many of them on my AC/LHR flight the other day and most were connecting to an AC code share flight on BA. AC also has a CS with BA on YYZ LHR/RUH. And AC will be paying much more attention in general to Saudi as Saudia will start flying to YYZ shortly.
There are lots of *A flights from LHR to non-hub cities. But the scarce LHR landing slots are dominated by BA, and the same is true for AF at CDG. The end result is that you need to take BA or AF if you want to fly LHR-CDG.
From LHR, you can make good *A connections to Scandinavia (SA), Germany (LH), Switzerland (LX), Belgium (SN) and Austria (OS). France and Spain aren't so easy on *A, though.
Facts? More like heresay.
I suppose that, as a YYZ pax, I should fire off some complaints because on some days AC is down to 3 flights a day to LHR as opposed to 5 in peak seasons. And, they take the 777's off the route. Quel horreur!!
while we're on the subject of If Wishes Were Airplanes, I'd love to see a second-tier flight in and out from Tumbler Ridge (northern BC, six thousand highly-paid coal-miners linked by a dirt (!) highway to Grande Prairie) to Edmonton, and thence the world.
something tells me that I won't see this any time soon, especially when Air Canada are now locked in a death struggle with Westjet.
More "facts' fed by your handlers.
Maybe this make the Edmonton hoi polloi get a better understanding of AC's new culture vs the crap spewed:
"Air Canada is pleased to be one of the top 100 employers in Canada. We invest a great deal in the well-being of our employees and we are thrilled to be recognized as a company that values its workforce through best practice programs and working conditions. Our employees, in turn, take great pride in delivering the safest and best possible customer experience every day," said Arielle Meloul-Wechsler, Vice President Human Resources at Air Canada. "As a progressive employer, Air Canada has always been attractive to people seeking fulfilling career opportunities and we receive on average close to 100 applications for each position we fill."
WETJET is not on that list.
You must be the only one who actually believes AC is a better employer than WS. It was only last year that AC & its unions were at each other's throats and the unions on strike only to be legislated back to work or prevented from striking. That is of course massively beside the point of this thread which is not employee relations but Air Canada suspending nonstop service Edmonton - Heathrow.
LOL. What's new...
Bad YEG! Of course, if it was AC getting a concession it would be lauded as just another piece of brilliant business by savvy management from some here!
And of course, altruistic AC never garnered any form of "subsidy" from YEG over the years, nor was this just a convenient excuse to downgrade a route already previously on the chopping block ...
Is there a point in any of that?
Um, have you followed the story at all? It is pretty obvious that AC had made this decision earlier and is using the arrival of FI to artificially deflect bad local press from their announcement.
Insinuating that concessions from YEG are unfair makes them look petty, never mind the hypocrisy at play. Why not just be truthful for once? They can't make it work year round, but can't tell truth. YEG is not important in their plans. Spin at its finest...
BTW Isn't it the mandate of the airport authority to attract more business for its airport and region? I would sure hope so! Poor AC...always the victim.
Ok, so you are saying if EIA were more civilized and gave more subsidies to AC as well, then all would be fair in love and war and AC could make a go of it? You've got to be kidding...I thought this airline was so well managed that they didn't need any help? At least you've spelled it out for all to see. What hypocrisy...
In a socialist world competition doesn't matter. AC sees Edmonton as marginal at best in overseas traffic profits and took a good shot at a subsidized offer to a competitor. All is fair in that game. AC used their competitive genes very well IMHO and probably created the exact stir they wanted to achieve. YEG airport now knows the whole airline world understands how marginal profits will be if they enter that market. And, YEG needs to get over itself in any event because YYC is the overseas hub in Alberta.
Did I say that or did I suggest that a subsidy to another competitor was unfair in a market where profits are marginal at best. Go look in the mirror again and lip sync hypocrisy again.
parnel never lets anyone else's viewpoint or the real facts obscure his distortion of reality.
His favourite airline is losing the game in YEG because intelligent people avoid it like the plague and gladly welcome other, more service-oriented and competitive airlines with open arms in accordance with a mandate to improve air service.
It's no accident that hacks like Harper's former chief of staff, Derek Vanstone, think they can use bully tactics on YEG because they will cry and whine to block competition at every turn in whatever backroom deals they cook up with the Harper regime.
Originally Posted by PunishedEdmontonian
Now why don't you do something productive like work toward improving air service in your own city rather than attacking a successful city and its airport.
My takeaway from Statistics is that correlation does not necessarily prove causation. What you are doing is drawing a conclusion which may or may not be accurate, and passing it off as fact. Ignoring of course the dire financial issues Mexicana was having at the time.
Is this what you call productive work towards improving air service?
I'm not the one complaining about my airport's service. We get pretty close to what we need - if there is profit to be had on routes then an airline will start the route. If AC could make more money with the 763 e.g. YYZ-IST instead of YEG-LHR, that is how they should use the aircraft.
This poster nails it and shows just how much ignorance comes out of YEGVILLE and its hoi polloi
Intelligent people avoid Edmonton like the plague? What have I missed in the news?
nothing at all. People there suffer from little man complex when they see YYC getting more attention than them and it appears beyond most of them that airlines exist to make a profit in a level playing field.
I agree with AC's business decision. YEG gave subsidies to Icelandic on a route that appears to be barely profitable for AC. Any business would react the same way when treated in a such an uncivilized manner.
AC sees Edmonton as marginal at best in overseas traffic profits and took a good shot at a subsidized offer to a competitor.
AC is aware that Icelandic is going to get a subsidy from YEG airport and AC is PO'ed about it.
Maybe you should re-read what you write? Yes, you imply that AC is po'd because YEG did not give them concessions. That is what they want and are looking for in the spring. What does AC care if Iceland Air make a profit or not? The only point of their statements is to distract from an unpopular (previously made) business decision and to strong arm EIA. Let's not pretend FI has anything to do with anything concerning AC. It's not even the same route.
YEG needs to get over itself in any event because YYC is the overseas hub in Alberta.
No argument there from me. Hmm, you think EIA might have figured that out? I think they've realized AC couldn't care less about YEG. Hence the move to diversify.