Latest on HHonors devaluation

Discussion in 'Hilton | HHonors' started by deant, Nov 6, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. deant
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    deant Milepoint Guide

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    If you have followed the thread on Hilton Bora Bora and Moorea, you have seen that Hilton has made some significant changes to the HHonors program - at least in regards to resorts. Key is that Hilton gave NO ADVANCE INFORMATION relative to the change.

    It has been a month since Hilton had, what they called a "glitch", happened. The "glitch" was that no "standard" rooms were available at some hotels and resorts. As of today, Hilton has fixed some of the issues. However, there are still some significant changes that have happened and have not been advertised by Hilton.

    Specifically, at both Bora Bora and Moorea, in the past, both twin and King Lagoon rooms were considered "standard" and available for awards. In the case of Bora Bora, they had 16 "Lagoon View" rooms available. Now, they only consider "twin" rooms as standard. For Bora Bora this reduces the award inventory from 16 to a maximum of 3 (If you want to reserve a King room, you need to pay 174,000 points per night rather than 50,000 for the Twin). I don't have the statistics on Moorea but I would assume the statistics are about the same. The King rooms require about triple the number of points that the Twin room requires - irrespective of the fact that the cash rate is the same for both rooms.

    Many people have written to the Hilton Worldwide CEO and the Hilton Representative on FT and have not received any clarification of the change. They obviously want to sweep the change under the rug and hope people stop complaining.

    The bottom line is that Hilton is now allowing a significant restructuring of award room availability / definition. If Moorea and Bora Bora can consider only "twin" rooms as being standard, what is to stop every Hilton / Doubletree etc. hotel from creating a specific definition of rooms such that "standard" rooms are limited to 1 or 2 rooms per hotel (Twin room, lowest floor etc.).

    In addition, Hilton has eliminated the "Diamond Force" for award reservations (unless ALL reward categories are sold out"). Since the "Premium" rooms go for 3 to 10 times the normal award rate, it is improbable that all categories of awards are sold out).

    I, for one, feel that Hilton is trying to significantly devalue the HHonors program. Based on the changes that Hilton has incorporated, I honestly believe that other programs are much more valuable than Hilton. For next year, I plan on giving up my Diamond status and concentrating on either Hyatt or SPG.
     
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  2. Sweet Willie
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    Sweet Willie Gold Member

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    agree 100% on both statements. I'll figure a way to burn the HHonors points I have and be done with them. Oh, almost forgot, I also have my Hilton Amex to cancel.
     
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  3. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    I am sure those twin rooms are quite popular with honeymooners... :mad:

    The only message they understand is a drop in bookings. I am "only" a Gold member and frankly have no aspirations to become Diamond. Maybe every time I book a nice Hyatt hotel with a competing Hilton I will send a copy of my folio to Hilton Honors with a little note essentially saying "this could've been your revenue..."
     
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  4. Sweet Willie
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    Sweet Willie Gold Member

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    edited to add: I recently attended the Chicago Seminar Do & by some stroke of luck;) I was asked to host a Hilton breakout session. Before the breakout I wrote down some topics to bring up, one of which being this devaluation. A few things I noted, a good number of the folks in our breakout group were unaware of this 'IT glitch' and a couple made the comment that they have no interest/do not stay at properties like Bora Bora/Moorea. To the latter I responded by asking what makes you think that this 'IT glitch' will only spread to these two properties? I for one believe it is only a matter of time until this glitch appears with other properties.
     
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  5. 2soonold
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    2soonold Gold Member

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    Yes, I am one of those who never plans a Bora Bora/Moorea stay. But because I am, for the moment, exclusively with Hilton any thing that devalues the progam gives me concern. My participaton in the HHonors give Hilton a significant advantage in selling me stays across all of its hotels that I might otherwise have given to their competitors instead.
    My big complaint right now is that every room that is offered for Points is not also offered for Points and Cash.
     
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  6. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    I perhaps naively, thought this NEW thread was to discuss the devaluation of the entire Hilton program yet we seem to be getting the now beaten to death/ rehash/ over and over neverending ad nuseaum discussion about the Polyneasia properties (which personally have no interest in)

    While I may share the concern of some here that the changes relevant to those might be (OR MIGHT NOT) be applied to the worldwide portfolio I am yet to see credible evidence of such.
    If the roof of a hotel leaks in Bora Bora I certainly am not going to worry about the same happening at the Conrad Toyko:)

    I would hope (perhaps furtively) that the discussion would be confined to that ridiculous thread (the most charitible description I can muster as of now) on Flyertalk which contains so much misinformation it boggles the mind.:rolleyes:
    and where if some poor poster tries to provide an even very slightly opposing view or even recommend a little patience to see how this pans out, he gets run over by the very same angry howling mob.

    What has really become quite irritating on all Hilton program boards is if some member broaches a topic, quite unrelated to the one being discussed above we get a number of the very same posters telling us over and over
    " HH point are useless, the program is devalued, I have moved over to Hyatt or ICH, blah, blah, blah... "
    From my point of view just do it and shut up already.
    If some of us want to be stupid as some of you think we are.... just let us be stupid in peace.

    One thing is evident that the majority pehaps quite deliberately has totally confused the Polyneasia "problem" with the now newly available but increased redemption value for non-standard award rooms.
     
  7. deant
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    deant Milepoint Guide

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    Newbluesea,

    This thread does not have to be limited to the FP properties. The reason I started this thread was so people could post the devaluations of the HHonors program that they have seen.

    I fully believe that Hilton has made changes to other properties that impact award availability. For example, at the ADT, they now have 9 categories of rooms (plus suites) - only 1 of which qualifies for a standard award. In the past, if I remember correctly, they had 3 or maybe 4 categories. By adding categories, like "Guest Room Plus", which has the exact same description as the normal Guest Room, allows them to reduce the number of standard rooms available for award. Maybe there is a difference in a Guest Room and a Guest Room Plus, but you can not see it from the information on the Hilton site.
     
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  8. Sweet Willie
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    Sweet Willie Gold Member

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    your best statement, thanks. The remainder.....
     
  9. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    Well I guess we will wont we?:)

    As far back as i can remember HH awards have always been designated "Standard Guest Rooms" hence the necessity in the past of being required/able to do Diamond Special Requests when the inventory of such rooms were exhausted.
    As a HH Diamond member with over 23 years in the program I have been ungraded on every one of the dozens of awards I have retrieved ...so the initial award room designation is pretty irrelevant from my point of view.

    As far as the recatagorization of rooms by HH as you reiterate above... I put to you have absoluetly no evidence that is the case and the premise of your arguement is based solely on speculation... so speculate away.
     
  10. luv2travel

    luv2travel Silver Member

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    I think I speak for everyone when I say the the last couple of years Hilton Honors has gone downhill. Between weak promotions, poor Diamond customer service, lack of upgrades (I've been to rooms and been like "Is this really an upgrade?), and practically pimping out Gold status to anyone - the entire program has just gone downhill. Time for an overhaul.
     
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  11. Sweet Willie
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    Sweet Willie Gold Member

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    not to get too off track but for me the promos (specifically stay 4 get 1 free) have been the best promos that Hilton has had in years, before that it was really bad. The stay 4 get 1 free was actually the reason I jumped back in bed w/Hilton. There was some other Hilton thread where I was pining for the days of stay 4 get 40k & 100k would get 6 nights in Hawaii, now those were promos !!
     
  12. Toula
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    Toula Gold Member

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    I must admit I have not been paying much attention to the supposed devaluation. However, I have been trying to book a room for Paris and whereas before the changes I could do an AXON for 145k points for 4 nights, now they are wanting 160k for one night at the same hotel. There is nothing available for cash and points.

    I would rather they go back to the old way, either a room is available at the appropriate rate for the category or it's not.

    Needless to say I will not be redeeming at these rates, however I will find a way to burn off the points we have and not endeavour to collect any more. Our Hilton AMEX will also be RTS if I find every time I try to redeem I am faced with the same outcome as I listed above.

    If they are going to do C&P they need to do it the SPG way.
     
  13. RestlessLocationSyndrome
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    RestlessLocationSyndrome Silver Member

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    The stay 4 get 1 free is the reason I'm going to earn 16 stays with Hilton through the end of the year. At the same time, it worries me about the lower availability of standard rooms since all the certificates are only allowed for standard rooms. This wasn't an issue at the window I was looking for at the Conrad Bali but then when looking for the Conrad Singapore, there wasn't standard room availability during the business/work week.

    I'm going to earn the free stays anyway and just hope that I get to use them. I know that so far, it's been ok with the properties that I'm interested in for Europe.
     
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  14. luv2travel

    luv2travel Silver Member

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    Even though I do like their stay 4 get 1 free it still doesn't make up for the other 3 weak promotions in the year. Plus...they added a bunch of stipulations on it this year, including the 6 month time frame to use them.
     
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  15. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    Did any of their major competitors have better promos? I mainly follow Hyatt (primary) and HHonors (secondary) and Hyatt didn't offer anything out of the ordinary. On the contrary, the eliminated the Gx bonus feature, which was often a nice source of extra points. I have the feeling (without backing of financial data or special insights) that the hotel companies were generally pretty happy with how the business developed this year and didn't feel the need to throw lots of points or free nights at customers to drum up business.
     
  16. RestlessLocationSyndrome
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    RestlessLocationSyndrome Silver Member

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    You run promotions based on how badly you want the incremental business and on what your competition is doing. Perhaps Hilton saw that their promos earlier this year brought in less business than expected and rolled out this one to try to get some business back.
     
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  17. gleff
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    gleff Co-founder

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    Hilton has only just become active in the promo space. They increased price of award rooms and then required more activity in order to earn points more quickly to keep up. Jeff Diskin said he wanted to keep members on the treadmill.

    The question here is whether the program is meaningfully tweaking their definition of standard room, or whether it's limited to a couple of properties, I do think it's incredibly unfortunate even there because the truly great values in the HHonors program are at those and similar properties. One imagines that great values don't last. :(
     
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  18. Sweet Willie
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    Sweet Willie Gold Member

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    oh no doubt, agreed, I was simply stating that it was a thorough promo desert before stay 4.
     
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  19. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    To be more accurate the your statement should read " only just active AGAIN in the promo space "
    If memory serves during the years 1993-1996 or thereabouts they ran about 10 (yep TEN) four stay = 50k points promos.:) some of which overlapped.
     
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  20. estnet
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    estnet Gold Member

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    Oh like the Maldives for example - which I just found, And. Then. There were none (or so it could be)
     
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  21. estnet
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    estnet Gold Member

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  22. RestlessLocationSyndrome
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    RestlessLocationSyndrome Silver Member

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    I think it is debatable whether Starwood's promo was better. Their offer this year was stay 3, get 1 free at a resort property that wasn't specifically excluded. Fantastic for those of us who actually want or can get to the resort destinations that they want to stay at. However, not very useful if you find their 250 or so resort properties in places that you cannot or do not want to go to.

    The Hilton promo of stay 4 get 1 free are good at pretty much any Hilton property which really opens up the number of locations which you can use them at. Yes, I agree that many of the properties on Starwood's list are fantastic but there are quite a few Hilton properties that are great as well.... and the pure accessibility from Hilton is much better if you are more concerned with the location than the property.
     
  23. chitownflyer
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    chitownflyer Silver Member

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    Unfortunately, Hilton excluded a large number of hotels from being eligible for the stay 4 earn a free night promo. Many Hamptons, Doubletrees, and even the Hilton San Francisco stays do not qualify for the promo. The previous year's Q3FN was a much better promo as any stay at any Hilton hotel qualified, and the Q3FNs were valid for one year. It is a shame that Hyatt has not brought back Faster Free Nights to make the hotel world's promotions more competitive.
     
  24. eddie

    eddie Silver Member

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    Posted this to Twitter. Suggest you do the same.

    @HiltonHHonors @AmericanExpress @Citibank Years of business undermined by #HHonors devaluation. HHGold turns #disloyal, joins #boycott
     
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  25. HaveMilesWillTravel
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