KVS Tool For Mac & Linux Users

Discussion in 'KVS' started by KVS Tool, Feb 13, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. KVS Tool

    KVS Tool Z Representative

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    While the KVS Tool is a native Windows application, it has been specifically designed to be Virtual Machine & Emulator-friendly.

    Many KVS Tool members successfully run it on their Mac & Linux-based systems using a variety of VM/Emulator products of their choice.

    Please see http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Compatibility for specific details.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. KVS Tool

    KVS Tool Z Representative

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    <Reserved For Future Use>
     
  3. KVS Tool

    KVS Tool Z Representative

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    <Reserved For Future Use>
     
  4. vbroucek
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    vbroucek Silver Member

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    Virtual machine friendly? What is this bull....? Either it runs in virtual machine or it does not. There is nothing you can do to write an application VM friendly because everything depends on how the OS runs on VM.
    Emulatore friendly? Yes, there are things that one can do to make sure software runs on emulator, but to be honest use of Microsoft DLLs is not exactly emulator friendly because you do not have any control over the behavour of those DLLs. Additionally, most of today's emulators are so good that they will run anything Windows that you throw on them.
     
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  5. WINE Is Not an Emulator, and it has clean-room reimplementing DLLs, although it can also use Microsoft DLLs if you have a proper license for them.
     
  6. vbroucek
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    vbroucek Silver Member

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    Did I say anywhere that WINE was an emulator? No! I was referring to KVS redistributing Microsoft DLLs.
     
  7. I wasn't aware that KVS distributed Microsfot DLLs. That being said, several DLLs are redistributable (generally, the C++ runtimes, and a bunch of other auxiliary DLLs that usually get shipped in the redist folder in Visual Studio).

    As for WINE not being an emulator, it seemed to me it was implied by your previous post; my apologies.
     
  8. vbroucek
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    vbroucek Silver Member

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    Yes, KVS redistributes few redistributable DLLs and when you install it, it gives you choice where do you want them.. My comment was in relation to claim that KVS is emulator friendly. Having programming past, I can swear that any program that needs redistributables simply cannot be friendly even in a native environment, let alone in an emulator.
     
  9. Point taken, although that may be with compability with older versions of Windows; an app that uses GDI+ (for an example) would have to distribute the GDI+ runtime for any version of Windows predating Windows XP. Same goes for applications that are dynamically linked against the VSC++2010 runtime.

    I don't see any DLLs in my copy of KVS, but they might have been installed in system32 without me noticing. Anyway, we're drifting off topic.
     
  10. KVS Tool

    KVS Tool Z Representative

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    Not really. For example (and in contrast to the KVS Tool), many versions of the .Net platform (and, consequently, any applications that use it) have a "Garbage" rating under WINE: http://AppDB.WineHQ.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=2586
     
  11. vbroucek
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    vbroucek Silver Member

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    msinet.ocx, msvbvm60.dll, comctl32.ocx
     
  12. vbroucek
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    vbroucek Silver Member

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    I may now upset some WINE fans, so I state clearly that I am not advocating for Microsoft, but the fact that WINE has problem with .Net does not necessarily mean that the problem is with .Net. It may also mean that simply WINE is not good enough to handle .Net.
    I am using VMware only, so I cannot judge WINE from practical point, but when I tried few years ago to use, it was significantly inferior compared to VMware.
     
  13. TuxTraveller
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    TuxTraveller Silver Member

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    vbroucek I agree with your points that using redistributables is not friendly full stop, though getting KVS to work in WINE or Crossover is really not very difficult. I'd probably have chosen to write my application slightly different and not be so OS dependent and not use redistributables, but again the tool does work on Linux and MacOS using either WINE or Crossover so it shouldn't really be a major gripe.

    Of course I'm a very big believer in open source and I find that proprietary software generally stifles innovation. So my criticism is not the use of redistributables but that it is proprietary software!!
     
  14. vbroucek
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    vbroucek Silver Member

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    TuxTraveller, I was not saying that KVS does not work in WINE or Crossover. My reactions were targeted at KVS author who claimed earlier in this thread that KVS is “VM and Emulator friendly”. My point was that there is nothing to make application VM friendly, becausein it VM it totally depends on OS and that using redistributables is not very friendly for emulators, because my only experience with WINE ended as soon as I ran into missing dll issues.
    I personally support Open Source too, but to certain limit given the fact that I work in computer security and forensics and Open Source is simply banned in certain organisations for whom I consult, mainly for a fear of possible back doors. And unfortunately, I have seen several great pieces of Open Source that had been “backdoored”… Having said that, there were and I am sure still are cases of “backdoored” commercial software too – Microsoft and Oracle being most known for it.
     
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  15. KVS Tool

    KVS Tool Z Representative

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    And on this note, please keep the thread on-topic and limited to practical matters. The academic merits of open-source vs. other types of software and the technical differences between emulators and compatibility layers would be best discussed in a different forum.
     
  16. TuxTraveller
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    TuxTraveller Silver Member

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    vbrouce, agreed the claims made by KVS are embellished though perhaps not worse that much of the marketing garbage our industry regular churns out. Also on the note of open source, I like you also work with a lot of proprietary software... I don't always agree (as you yourself point out) that the commercial software does better in protecting against security vulnerabilities. It's a trade-off, opening your code means everyone can look at it and find the flaws, but equally you often get a far bigger developer pool helping to close them through the community. Better out in the open where everyone can see it than secretly being taken advantage of by a small group of elites. Many of my clients aren't as comfortable with that yet, so I'm still implementing a lot of proprietary software too :D

    KVS, I'm afraid you derailed the thread yourself when you decided to over sell your application. A simple, this will run on Linux and Mac through WINE, Crossover or through a VM (VMWare, Parallels, etc.) would have done the trick!

    No reason to oversell your product, I believe that's what both vbrouce and I have reacted against here!

    On that note however, I see no reason to keep stirring this topic until it turns to butter :p
     
  17. vbroucek
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    vbroucek Silver Member

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    I would argue that I was not off topic - IMHO, your incorrect overstatement deserved correction.
     
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  18. mundosurfer
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    mundosurfer Gold Member

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    Why can't you just develop a version for the Mac, and a real app for the iPad?
     
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  19. maclover

    maclover Silver Member

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    I would love that too. Especially for the iPad!
     
  20. vbroucek
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    vbroucek Silver Member

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    Because Apple would most probably not approve such app - for all sort of reasons :D
     

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