Know your rights when flights are delayed

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Travel' started by guinnessxyz, Dec 24, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. http://www.bbc.com/travel/blog/20121217-pocket-sized-guides-to-flyers-rights

    If you are travelling for the holidays, be prepared – the chance of your flight being delayed or cancelled is higher than usual. Recent mergers, such as of United and Continental in 2010, and British Airways and Iberia in 2011, have led airlines to reduce service in North America and Europe, combining formerly overlapping routes to cut costs (and hike fares in the newfound absence of competition), resulting in fuller planes and fewer alternatives should something go wrong. In particular, only 14% of seats on average are expected to be empty on US flights over the next few weeks, so if you do find yourself stranded, it may be even harder than usual to get re-booked on a new flight.
    Add in the unpredictability of winter storms and you have the potential for what Germans call “Winterchaos”. Just think back to February 2011 when icy conditions in North America led to the grounding of about 20,000 flights, according to FlightAware.com, or December 2010, when snowstorms in Europe and the US led to about 8,000 flight cancelations.
     
  2. iolaire
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    iolaire Gold Member

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    I utilized the forms at:
    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-delays
    for an EU flight delay. Send in complaint via email 12 days ago with no response yet, so last week I also mailed in my complaint with registered mail + return receipt. It cost about $16 for first class registered with return receipt to Italy.
     
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  3. Sweet Willie
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    Sweet Willie Gold Member

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    thanks for posting this info guinnessxyz
     
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  4. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    And yet still way too much directly copied there to be considered fair use. :rolleyes:
     
  5. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    I guess I really need to read the EU regulations more carefully. I just had a LH flight arrive more than 5 hrs delayed and the cause was - by admission of the pilot over PA - a technical problem with the inbound aircraft that had a six hour delay.

    Should LH have informed the pax of their rights? (I checked in online, before the delay was known)
     
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  6. iolaire
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    iolaire Gold Member

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    I believe so yes, according to what I've read they are supposed to have a handout of your rights. The interesting issue is a five hour delay is worth 600 euro so the payment you are is getting so large it’s hard to not consider filing.

    I’ve been told here that here in the US the risk of fines because of delays is why the airlines are proactively canceling flights during bad weather, in there is a good chance that they could have flown. I’ve feel like seen a huge increase in weather wavers recently, but that may just be due to twitter.
     
  7. Wandering Aramean
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    It isn't just because of Twitter. The airlines are, in fact, canceling more flights more pro-actively in weather situations and offering more waivers as a result.
     
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  8. carsonheim
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    carsonheim Gold Member

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    My Christmas eve IST-EWR flight on UA was cancelled. We were rebooked for Christmas day travel. I looked at the flyers rights app and don't see info re Turkey. Anyone know what comp I should be asking for/expecting?
     
  9. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    Turkey is not in the EU, so EU rights don't apply. Not sure if Turkey has any rules you could fall back on, otherwise it's basically standard UA voluntary compensation (possibly upon request).
     
  10. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    There are no formal rules defining what you are entitled to.

    And, FWIW, the inbound for your flight diverted due to mechanical issues.
     
  11. http://www.starallianceemployees.co...guide/rg_irregular_operations_handling.1.html
    This is from the *A site and while it pertains to EU originated flights I would assume the alliance has pretty much made them the standard across all members.
    I do believe that every airline has formal rules for what they will allow for IROPS.
     
  12. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    It's interesting to read the LH website that documents their interpretation of the Passenger Rights:

    http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/cmn/generalinfo?nodeid=2161511&l=en

    Specifically, for delays:

    Delay

    In accordance with the EU Regulation a delay occurs when a flight is delayed beyond its scheduled departure time by 4 hours for flights of more than 3.500 km, by 3 hours for flights between 1.500 km and 3.500 km as well as intra-Community flights of more than 1.500 km, and by 2 hours for flights of up to 1.500 km. When your flight is expected to have a long delay, passengers are entitled to receive care while waiting.

    This includes: meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time, hotel accommodation if necessary including transfer costs and the option of making two brief telephone calls or sending two short faxes or e-mails. Care for passengers while waiting may be declined if the provision of the care would itself cause further delay. In case of more than 5 hours you are entitled to a refund of your ticket within seven days for the parts not used or for those parts already used if your flight no longer serves its purpose, and when relevant, a return flight to your first point of departure.


    Nothing about compensation.

    And yet LH just lost a case in front of Europe's highest court about just that:

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/10/23/uk-airlines-court-compensation-idUKBRE89M0LO20121023

    http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1351031467.html

    Europe's highest court rejected attempts by airlines including Lufthansa and British Airways to avoid paying compensation for delayed flights, making it harder for carriers to side-step payments in future.

    The Luxembourg-based European Court of Justice (ECJ) on Tuesday said passengers deserved to be recompensed for delays of more than three hours, reaffirming a right established three years ago.

    The court was ruling in a case involving Lufthansa and another involving TUI Travel, British Airways, easyJet and IATA.

    Passengers on flights starting or ending in the 27-country European Union are entitled to between EUR€250 (USD$330) and EUR€600 for delayed or cancelled flights under EU rules.
     
  13. How are reward flights dealt with by this court order?
     
  14. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    According to Wikipedia the EU regulations apply to award tickets:

    The protection accorded to passengers departing from OR to an airport located in a Member State should be extended to those leaving an airport located in a third country for one situated in a Member State, when a Community carrier operates the flight and where a community carrier is defined as any carrier licensed to operate within that community.
    departing from an EU member state, or
    travelling to an EU member state on an airline based in an EU member state
    if that person has:
    a confirmed reservation on the flight, and
    arrived in time for check-in as indicated on the ticket or communication from the airline, or, if no time is so indicated, no less than 45 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time of the flight
    or
    have been transferred from the flight for which he/she held a reservation to some other flight

    unless

    the passenger is travelling on a free or discounted ticket not available to the general public, other than a ticket obtained from a frequent flyer programme
    .
     
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  15. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    They are considered revenue tickets, as they should be. Industry seats such as ZED fares or ID90s are not.
    Except that Turkey is not part of the EEC/EU so the regulations do not apply there..
     
  16. Did I not state that in my post? My post stated I assume that standard "maybe" set by all *A members.
     
  17. Wandering Aramean
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    You stated that you think the Alliance made it a standard across all airlines. And, as phrased, it reads to me that you imply it applies to more than just EU-originating flights. You also posted in in reply to a inquiry for a flight ex-IST, a flight to which it does not apply.

    Either that was the best non-sequitur ever or just bad advice in reply to the question you were directly replying to. I have no idea which, but either way I thought it would be useful that the person you were replying to know the reply you offered explicitly doesn't apply to them.
     
  18. That's net nanny stuff!!
     
  19. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    If that's how you wish to define providing accurate, relevant and appropriately specific answers then so be it. I just call it useful. :rolleyes:
     
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  20. wijomas
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    Usefulness would be climbing in overhead bins. Helpful and informative posts have no place in society. :D
     
  21. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    I was just fascinated to see that the page specifies a Star Alliance Telex format. Do they really still use that technology?
     
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  22. Counsellor
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    In case anyone's interested, the EU regulation can be found here:

    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2004/l_046/l_04620040217en00010007.pdf

    It applies even if you're not a citizen of an EU nation, if the flight is departing from or going to an EU airport. And there are companies that will assist a passenger in filing a claim. There is no initial up-front charge for the service, but they do charge for certain extra work. Here's the one I've used that worked out for me (DISCLAIMER: I have no relationship with them except for being a past client):

    http://www.euclaim.co.uk/
     
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  23. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    It applies to all flights departing from an EU airport no matter where the airline is registered.

    it only applies to flights depart from a non-EU airport and going into an EU airport if the operating carrier is registered in the EU.

    E.g.,

    FRA-SFO is always subject to the rules.

    SFO-FRA operated by LH is subject to the rules, but SFO-FRA operated by UA is not.

    At least that's my understanding.
     
  24. iolaire
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    iolaire Gold Member

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    From what I see filling out the form is that they provid templates filled in for £15 for the airline, or £22.50 for a credit card. Do they provided additional services should the airline be at fault but refuse to pay out?

    For example I know of one other who had the goverment decide the airline was at fault yet the airline still refused payment. I'm expecting my outstanding claim will end with a simlar status.
     
  25. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    In my case, they offered to file a claim with my credit card for £22.50 or provide a "flight delay statement" for £14.95 - is that more than a pull of flightaware data? And for £22.50 they apparently provide me with pre-filled letters to file myself. No indication that they'd do anything if the airline rejects my claim.
     

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