KLM Adopting Fully Flat Biz Seats

Discussion in 'Flying Blue | Air France, KLM/Partners' started by Jimgotkp, Nov 10, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. Jimgotkp
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    Jimgotkp Gold Member

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  2. gleff
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    gleff Co-founder

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    Starting in May 2013? When did BA go full flat in biz? I tell ya. ;)
     
  3. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Ah, but BA does not have nice delft houses.
     
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  4. gleff
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    gleff Co-founder

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    True!
     
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  5. CescoAiel

    CescoAiel Silver Member

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    That's Delft Blue houses, and they now even have an iPhone app for the collectors! ;)
     
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  6. TRAVELSIG
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    TRAVELSIG Gold Member

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    Excellent news, however until KL improves their service levels on board and at AMS I will stick with other airlines unless KL is the only choice.
     
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  7. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    There are a good many well below KL on my list. I do not argue your point, though. They are not at all what they once were.
     
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  8. TRAVELSIG
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    Excellent point jbcarioca- a shame that such a wonderful airline went the way it did.
     
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  9. CescoAiel

    CescoAiel Silver Member

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    It went downhill when they merged with AF... That's what you get for letting AF run the show, I guess! :(

    Unfortunately if your starting point is AMS, there aren't many good alternatives to KLM for your EMEA flights, at least not when you want to use a single carrier as much as possible so you can accrue miles and get some status! :rolleyes:
    (Though flying from AMS is expensive, even if you're using your miles for the tickets! Taxes and fees are outrageous! Looked in to flying to Florida with the family (4 of us) for the summer and I would still have had to spend well over €1000 just on taxes and fees! Free tickets my a**! :confused: )
     
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  10. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    To be fair the decline happened quite some time before AF entered the picture. Even so, for some of us, including me, the usual best option to get somewhere in Europe is AF/KL and for the price i cannot complain. Their business is usually 25030% cheaper than my other options. LH sometimes is, and I choose them over KL, but not AF. All of them are decent, IME, never so bad as the critics claim.

    Maybe I have just been lucky.
     
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  11. CescoAiel

    CescoAiel Silver Member

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    Yeah, I guess the initial decline did start well before that, but the last few years (since AF as far as I can tell) it seems to have gotten considerably less still!
    However they get me to and from where I need to be, and the FAs are usually friendly, so that is really all I care about most of the time.
    I do wish they'd have a more liberal upgrade policy for their Elite+ level members tho! If I fly Star Alliance, I get upgraded automatically if there are BC seats available, but on KL/AF you only get upgraded if EC is overbooked, but never ever on an intercontinental leg! (And all the recent changes to FB, like getting only 75%, 50% or even 25% of the level miles depending on fare class, degrading the AmEx FB card perks, etc., haven't helped a lot either!) :(

    However, there are many many airlines out there that rate well below KLM as far as I am concerned! ;)
     
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  12. MSPeconomist
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    MSPeconomist Gold Member

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    How do you get upgraded automatically on *A if there are business class seats available? Moreover, from your signature line, you seem to only have airline status with KLM, and no status at all on any *A carrier.
     
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  13. CescoAiel

    CescoAiel Silver Member

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    I don't have status anymore now, as the majority of flights are with KLM at the moment, but I did have in the past, and I never needed to ask for an upgrade. I'd get one if available, and would always find my name already on the upgrade wait-list if there weren't too many of higher status in front of me...
     
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  14. TRAVELSIG
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    TRAVELSIG Gold Member

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    Domestic/Transborder on UA/CO or US perhaps?

    No automatic *A program that I am aware of either- and certainly not intercontinental AFAIK (the AC program with ecredits maybe?).
     
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  15. CescoAiel

    CescoAiel Silver Member

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    LOL! I don't know how or why, but I do know *that* it happened... ;)

    Never on IC flights, but I have been put on the upgrade list on connecting domestic sections inside the USA several times! Perhaps they do it when you're incoming (and possibly outgoing) on an IC flight?

    But whatever the reason, their upgrade policy is still much more relaxed than the KLM/AF policy! :D
     
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  16. MSPeconomist
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    UA/CO and US upgrade their own elites within North America, but not *A elites from other carriers. Free upgrades are not a *A benefit.
     
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  17. TRAVELSIG
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    TRAVELSIG Gold Member

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    Understatement of the year- even using upgrade "instruments" like miles, miles and cash, evouchers.... requires a course from this website and other "bulletin boards" on the web prior to even attempting such a transaction:
    a) Fare Class
    b) Routing
    c) Aircraft Type
    d) "special service" deisgnations i.e. (oh, that is the nonstop route from _ _ _ so it doesn't count)
    e) Availability

    When it does work, using evouchers on SQ to move from C>F is nice- however no longer possible since the introduction of the A388 on most routes anyway. One area where *A could really improve is here.
     
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  18. CescoAiel

    CescoAiel Silver Member

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    Given that I used to be (both OP and) MP member with Elite status (at MP), there's a good chance I was put on the upgrade list by UA then!... :D

    Still, KLM doesn't even upgrade their *own* Gold/Platinum members unless their EC cabin is overbooked!

    The thing is that I really don't care for BC on domestic/short haul, because there is no effective difference in seating or leg-room, so I never bothered to investigate it, and on the long haul flights is it nigh impossible to get upgraded! ;)
     
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  19. MSPeconomist
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    But like other European full service carriers, KLM does give free lounge access to their elites. North American carriers generally don't do this even if they do give domestic upgrades.
     
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  20. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Maybe it is good to add that the MD11 fleet will not be upgraded and that allegedly four of them are to be grounded next quarter with no replacements planned. Still the replacement seats in the 777 fleet is being accelerated, so I was told by a KLMer friend. I have not checked out the boards so maybe this is already old news.
     
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  21. nldogbert

    nldogbert Silver Member

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    KLM has officially introduced the new seats. Consequences is that the number of business class seats on the 747 has been reduced from 42 to only 35 seats. Sadly this might most probably mean less of those special buy-ups during check-in or reduction in the Z-inventory. Pro's are better product (well at least lie flat). Looks nice and most probably integrates with the latest introduced inflight services from Marcel Wanders. Check out more info at http://nieuws.klm.com/klm-nieuw-cabine-full-flat-world-business-class-en/

    Cheers!
     
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  22. man on the move.

    man on the move. Silver Member

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    KLM has a business class? what a surprise, after all those trips back and forth. I wish i would have known.

    Anyway, the product looks similar to the private air flight that the used to (still have?) between houston and ams. i have been platinum for life since 98... hard to image i did so fast, but when the merger happened, i went straight in. I was NWA gold for many years, and KLM / NWA converted my old account to a KLM royal wing account as i was resident in the EU. I got a 1.6 points for every mile. my years as gold, and royal wing counted towards the 10 year required in flying blue / air france system. Pretty good deal.

    However, i think i picked all the wrong airlines to have cool status with - PanAm, TWA - million miler, KLM...

    I should have stuck with United or Continental. And i should have got that continental lifetime lounge card for $195 back when they were in chapter 11. (i would have had over 3 million on the combined airline if i had planned this smarter...)

    Anyway, KLM current business class was never very nice, and now it is old, dirty and not very nice. I have two full sets of houses (up to 87 when i stopped flying them), so i feel that i am speaking from some level of experience...

    I will probably try the new seat, at some point... but no rush.
     
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  23. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    I do not even have a single complete set, but I do have #92. I have not yet found #93. I don't mind them, even in the old seats, but I cannot argue with your logic either. OTOH, they're very cheap in business class, at least on my routes.
     
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  24. man on the move.

    man on the move. Silver Member

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    that only counts if you are paying the bill, which i rarely do...
     
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  25. TRAVELSIG
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    TRAVELSIG Gold Member

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    One way or another I am always paying the bill- because even when it is being charged to someone else I need to generate higher value to make this cost pay off for my customers- and the responsibility is to maximize value for the customer- so actually I cannot think of a scenario where it doesn't count. Jbcarioca I do agree- in the past KL had amazing fares in business ex-Italy for example- today they are terribly expensive most of the time- not quite at the level of AF however not far away.
     
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