India Still Not Ready To Accommodate A380

Discussion in 'Other Airlines | India' started by jbcarioca, May 17, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. jbcarioca
    Original Member

    jbcarioca Gold Member

    Messages:
    17,507
    Likes Received:
    57,455
    Status Points:
    20,020
    From Aviation Week Online

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...ine=India Still Not Ready To Accommodate A380
    May 17, 2011




    By Jay Menon
    [​IMG]
    International airlines are facing headwinds from the Indian aviation ministry following the administration’s decision not to allow the Airbus A380 to fly into the country.
    The Ministry of Civil Aviation withheld permission for foreign airlines because the country’s airport infrastructure is not adequate to handle the movement of the A380. “It might cause chaos at the airports. The height of the aerobridge is not adequate; the taxiing stands also need to be widened,” a senior official at the ministry tells Aviation Week.
    The government’s move has put Lufthansa’s route planning arrangements in jeopardy and has caused concern in the Gulf states, where airlines have designed much of their networks around servicing the long-haul travel needs of India’s growing population. “We applied for the ministry’s permission two years ago but still haven’t received a yes or a no,” a spokesman at Lufthansa says.
    The airline, which had recently increased its flights from Frankfurt and Munich to New Delhi, was expecting to secure the permission soon as it had factored in an A380 for India in its route planning. Currently, Lufthansa has seven of these aircraft and was planning to deploy the new jet on the Indian route from May. The airline official has also rejected the ministry’s argument about the lack of proper airport infrastructure saying: “The Terminal 3 airport in New Delhi was constructed to accommodate the A380.”
    Lufthansa Plans Delayed
    Lufthansa was expected to start flying the A380 on the Delhi-Frankfurt route with the opening of T3 in July 2010. “We are ready to bring the Airbus into the country. Our preparations will start when we get a go-ahead,” the Lufthansa official says. Airport operators and industry experts are also dismissive of the ministry’s argument that Indian airports lack the facilities to handle aircraft that large. “There are other contentious issues like Indian carriers expressing their objections to the A380 operating into the country,” Ansgar Sickert, managing director of Fraport India, owner of a stake in GMR Infrastructure Ltd., the operator of New Delhi’s airport, says. “Some domestic airlines that fly to Europe are worried that the A380 would take away passengers from their routes, with travelers lured by the new aircraft and attractive fares that are possible with the larger, more economical plane.”
    Indian carriers have often blamed foreign carriers of “stealing” passenger traffic from the country. Foreign airlines carry almost 70% of onward traffic from India to international destinations, according to aviation industry estimates. Carriers such as Emirates, Singapore Airlines and Qantas are also keen to fly their newly acquired fleet to India, which has become one of the world’s fastest-growing aviation markets.
    In May 2007 Emirates conducted A380 test flights to Delhi and Mumbai and operated a proving flight from Dubai to Delhi to authenticate the demand.
    Last July Emirates became the first international carrier to fly an A380 flight into India, during a one-day celebration of the opening of Terminal 3 at New Delhi’s Indira Gandhi International Airport. At the time, Emirates web site said New Delhi was a target city for the A380.
    Kapil Kaul, chief executive of the Indian unit of the Center for Asia Pacific Aviation in New Delhi, says the Indian government was taking a cautious approach in not consenting to the A380’s flight into India. “The entry of the super jumbo will bring in more competition for domestic carriers like Air India, Jet Airways and Kingfisher Airlines,” Kaul says.
    Kingfisher Airlines is the only Indian carrier to have signed a contract with Airbus for five A380s. The first aircraft is expected to enter service around 2016.

     
  2. sunspotzsz
    Original Member

    sunspotzsz Silver Member

    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    37
    Status Points:
    185
    Not many developing countries can accommodate A380, right?
    India has very good infrastructure.
     
    jbcarioca likes this.
  3. jbcarioca
    Original Member

    jbcarioca Gold Member

    Messages:
    17,507
    Likes Received:
    57,455
    Status Points:
    20,020
    True enough. Brazil is meant to have two airports capable of the A380 before 2014. I have a hard time believing either will be ready.
     
  4. MSPeconomist
    Original Member

    MSPeconomist Gold Member

    Messages:
    58,563
    Likes Received:
    98,528
    Status Points:
    20,020
    I wonder whether adequate facilities includes emergency response, rather than just passenger handling and comfort issues in addition to physical stuff like reinforced runways and suitable jetways. If there were an A380 crash, would there be enough first responders and hospital facilities and do they have adequate emergency plans?
     
    excelsior and jbcarioca like this.
  5. jbcarioca
    Original Member

    jbcarioca Gold Member

    Messages:
    17,507
    Likes Received:
    57,455
    Status Points:
    20,020
    Good questions. The same issues would apply to high density B744, B748 too. I hope all those issues are part of the process.
     
    MSPeconomist likes this.
  6. MSPeconomist
    Original Member

    MSPeconomist Gold Member

    Messages:
    58,563
    Likes Received:
    98,528
    Status Points:
    20,020
    This reminds me to the crash with two 747s on the Canary Islands a while ago. IIRC both planes were diverted from the larger airport on a different island due to weather.
     
    jbcarioca likes this.
  7. jbcarioca
    Original Member

    jbcarioca Gold Member

    Messages:
    17,507
    Likes Received:
    57,455
    Status Points:
    20,020
    That crash was some time ago. The son of the KLM PIC worked for me some years ago. It was at Tenerife. The KLM 747 was issued clearance that the crew misunderstood. The KLM chief training pilot my friends father, was in the cockpit as PIC at the time. The failure of standard language was one culprit and communications protocols were changed soon after the accident. The KLM PIC was ultimately held to have primary responsibility. The PanAm 747 was landing and could not exit the runway in time to avoid the crash.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster
     
    MSPeconomist likes this.
  8. MSPeconomist
    Original Member

    MSPeconomist Gold Member

    Messages:
    58,563
    Likes Received:
    98,528
    Status Points:
    20,020
    I also remember the resulting study of whether co-pilots deferred too much to senior pilots in the cockpit. I understood that changes were made in the training and attitudes to discourage less extreme deference to seniors and more of a teamwork atmosphere where no one is afraid to question or disagree.
     
    jbcarioca likes this.
  9. jbcarioca
    Original Member

    jbcarioca Gold Member

    Messages:
    17,507
    Likes Received:
    57,455
    Status Points:
    20,020
    That did happen, also as a result of several other accidents at the same time. In fact Cockpit resource management (CRM) became a big part of training. I had a few training incidents that showed the problem quite well. I remember them clearly; luckily we were not really flying.
     
    MSPeconomist likes this.
  10. excelsior
    Original Member

    excelsior Silver Member

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    170
    Status Points:
    325
    The report conflates matters. There are commerical/protectionist reasons why the Government of India does not permit A380 ops out of India I can elaborate on these separately if anyone is interested In terms of Airport preparedness

    (1) A380s can in any case operate from a remote stand as long any airline is able to import the necessary equipment to undertake A380 operations...fixed equipment is not a necessity. Jeddah is agood example of such operations. the only contraint there is airport passenger flow through

    (2) DEL HYD and BLR can be A380 ready (jetway) in 3 months and are able to handle A380 traffic ref the airport passenger flow through limits except DEL, I think, between 2330 and 0300 IST, roughly. This constraint goes by January next year as the planned flow through expansion is complete.
     
    jbcarioca likes this.
  11. jbcarioca
    Original Member

    jbcarioca Gold Member

    Messages:
    17,507
    Likes Received:
    57,455
    Status Points:
    20,020
    I thought there were taxiway, clearance and turning limitations at all these airports, presenting much the same impediments for the B747-800 as well. If it is only gate limitations it is a much less difficult and costly proposition, one that carriers might well be prepared to cover on their own. It would be very interesting to understand commercial interest in limiting A380 access, apart from paranoia about EK, that is.
     
    excelsior likes this.
  12. excelsior
    Original Member

    excelsior Silver Member

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    170
    Status Points:
    325
    Absolutely no ground movement limitations at any of these three airports, taxiways are broad enough to accomodate A380 as well for the traffic levels anticipate Hyderabad and Bangalore are greenfields and were built with the future in mind 0-- both airports are less than 5 years old The delhi airfield is also used by the Airforce and has ground room accordingly.

    There are approach issues in DEL but nothing that cannot be fixed
     
    jbcarioca likes this.
  13. excelsior
    Original Member

    excelsior Silver Member

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    170
    Status Points:
    325
    Inj response for JBC's request for some info on the subject of India biolats, A380 etc here is an edited and updated version of something i posted on TOBB ion the same topic

    According to my Government of India (GOI) informants there is no way that LH SQ EK will be granted A380 rights to India for the next three years There are five reasons for this on their part and a sixth from me I do hope this is useful:
    (1) These are not O&D traffic airlines They take India-US traffic (almost 55 per cent of it now India originating traffic) In a situation where demand supply mismatches have ceased and there is even some surplus capacity, there is lower pressure from the trsavelling public on GOI to be more liberal with frequency giveaways
    (2.) The 3 international airlines of India are
    2.1 increasing their point to point and one stop US coverage
    2.2 joining global alliances
    2.3 paying close attention to how the new modern hubs can be optimised to service domestic transits (DEL BLR HYD and from 2014 BOM)
    2.4 Tough lean airlines like Indigo and Spicejet are soon to enter the international market

    They are asking for infant industry protection for 3-5 years.
    (3) India has lots of unused bilats as things stand
    Because of (2) and (3) government view is it would be foolish to continue to pander to ""transit milking"" airlines Here EK QR EY SQ are the main focus but certainly LH and BA and to some extent AF are a factor as multi-destination capacity carriers
    (4) While EK is the main problem here, LH too is an issue. A380 rights may be contemplated, for example, for a 2 pm _+departure ex DEL early evening arrival germany implying a late night departure ex Germany early miod mornign arrival DEL Sounds convenient from an O&D point of view. This was broached with LH. Did they bite? Not on your life! Its the transit cream they want to skim and the O&D logical timing is of no use to them

    (5) There is public pressure on GoI to link the visa and treatment of citizen issues with airline traffic rights The argument: You earn rights because of the flag you carry so your flag had better demonstrate that it treats our-citizen flyers with respect. And on this score the UK France and Germany have the crudest regimes. Also UAE. So no dice. In contrast TG (for example) will be treated much better as will SAA, and even LX

    Also...
    6. ( not my informants info but my conjecture) With the recent corruption scandals in MoCA/DGCA the ability of airlines to --- ahem -- ""buy"" concessions from the sleazebags that normally inhabit these August institutions has reduced sharply...theres much closer scrutiny now
    Watch the India UAE bilats closing later this year EK EY QR etc are going to find the going much tougher than before
    Conclusion: India is no longer a pushover. Its one of the fastest growing pax and cargo markets and suffers like the US from owning weak commercial aviation assets which European SE-Asian and Middle East airlines have long exploited There is determination to change this and the tougher bilats are part of this story. “”Not like America”” appears to be the refrain of the day.
     
    jbcarioca likes this.
  14. excelsior
    Original Member

    excelsior Silver Member

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    170
    Status Points:
    325
    Good point raised!
    At DEL proving on this was done prior to opening (Evac and medaid on sucessful closure to MAyday situation, not a full blown crash) Answer: yes. defence medical and emergency facilities exist next to the airport to add capacity rapidly in a crisis No such proving for HYD and BLR yet but they also have the defence backup next door. BOM...certainly not and so its currently out of the question.
     
    jbcarioca likes this.

Share This Page