Iberia and BA will not retrospectively apply increased Spanish airport tax

Discussion in 'Europe' started by uggboy, Jul 12, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. uggboy
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    uggboy Gold Member

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    || Iberia and BA will not retrospectively apply increased Spanish airport tax ||

    Iberia and BA do the right thing:) while Ryanair is another story!:mad:
     
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  2. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    I am not sure that I agree with that. I don't have a problem with BA/IB's plan, but for once I don't think that RyanAir's approach of passing the increased taxes on to the passengers is unreasonable. Not sure about the implementation of it...
     
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  3. uggboy
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    I don't think so, when the flight was booked and fully paid before the 1st of July, I find it totally NOT right that passengers should be extra taxed, especially for something they could not know, nor responsible to know. Regarding Ryanair, that's very simple for them to retrospectively charge their passengers, because they would not expect anything else than nickel and dimed by them.
     
  4. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    Take your case to the Spanish government if you think it's not right that the passengers get to pay higher taxes. It's the government that is setting/getting the taxes. You say the passengers didn't know. Do you think the airlines knew? Is it fair to make them eat the cost?
     
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  5. milchap
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    milchap Gold Member

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    Anybody know about TAP?
     
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  6. HaveMilesWillTravel
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  7. uggboy
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    Who fights for the passengers, who deserve a break too! { Nearly all taxes have gone up across the board in many European countries, all the while many budgets // social services have been slashed, so the passengers needing a break for once, not businesses who believe it is fair to charge retrospectively passengers only because the government decides to impose yet another tax, btw. Ryanair has reported healthy profits, so IMHO they nickel and dime, that's why O'Leary is in the business, not because he loves aviation } People like O'Leary live on...make believe!
     
  8. uggboy
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  9. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    Bingo. So why is it fair to expect RyanAir to pay the taxes for passengers imposed on them by the Spanish government?
     
  10. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    Passengers can fight for themselves. They can choose not to fly to/from Spain. I hear there are nice beaches in other parts of the world, too. Or they can choose to recover the two Euros by buying one less beer during their vacation. Or ...
     
  11. anabolism
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    anabolism Gold Member

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    Indeed; the highest seems to be €11.64 for MAD to non-EU destinations. Considering the fuel surcharge saving by flying IB via MAD versus BA via LHR, it's well worth it.
     
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  12. LarryInNYC

    LarryInNYC Gold Member

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    No, Ryanair is right. There's no reason they should be expected to camouflage the tax increase using money from their pocket. The government probably should have applied the tax only to newly issued tickets but they didn't and it's therefore incumbent on the taxed entity (which is the traveler, not the airline) to pay.

    It's nice-ish of Iberia and BA to cover the difference on behalf of the customer, but they're not in any way morally obligated to do so.
     
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  13. uggboy
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    uggboy Gold Member

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    But the difference is that BA and Iberia do it.
     
  14. anabolism
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    I'm not sure they should have applied it only to newly-issued tickets. It seems much simpler for them to say that departures after a certain date incur the higher tax. Considering that tickets can be booked a year before the first flight, and the last flight might be a year after that, and the airlines are the ones who know when a ticket was issued, it could be rather difficult to sort out.

    I agree, this is nice.
     
  15. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    IB and BA have never been shy about charging taxes and fees. But a retroactive tax is logistically very difficult for them. It's not legal for a business to simply charge a customer's credit card without authorization. Apparently Ryanair is not in the same league, and expects to get away with it.
     
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  16. uggboy
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    Excellent observation, as could be expected, Ryanair is indeed a different league.
     
  17. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    They point people to section 4.2.2 of their T&Cs:


    4.2.2 Taxes, fees and charges imposed on air travel are constantly changing and can be imposed after the date that your reservation has been made. If any such tax, fee or charge is introduced or increased after your reservation has been made you will be obliged to pay it (or any increase) prior to departure. Similarly, if any such tax, fee or charge is abolished or reduced such that it no longer applies to you, or a lesser amount is due, you will be entitled to claim a refund of the difference from us.

    http://www.ryanair.com/en/terms-and-conditions#article4-taxesfeescharges

    They say you can opt out of having our card debited by canceling the flight. I am not sure if that would count as authorization if someone disputed the charge, by given the small amounts involved here for most travelers it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do it any other way.
     
  18. uggboy
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    This only shows that Ryanair is prepared to nickel and dime, as you said these are " only " small amounts, but can add up!
     
  19. uggboy
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    I think we should more think about BA / Iberia doing the right thing. Kudos to them!:)
     
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  20. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    They certainly add up for the airlines!

    And remember that RyanAir has a "reputation" to protect while BA/IB might write it off as a "marketing/good-will" expense (not necessarily in an accounting sense).
     
  21. Wandering Aramean
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    But the company should be extra taxed on something they could not know or be responsible to know?? :confused:

    The tax is per passenger. I'm not at all surprised that the airline is expecting the passenger to pay it. It isn't like they've added an internal fee after the fact and the airline is keeping the cash.
     
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  22. uggboy
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    But in the end, passengers with Ryanair will have to pay and passengers with BA / Iberia not.
     
  23. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    So states the original article.

    News Flash: different airlines may have different policies and/or marketing strategies. They may also charge different fares and fees.
     
  24. uggboy
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    It was also very clear that Ryanair has a policy structure which lets passengers retrospectively pay [ we live in a world in which we wouldn't expect anything else from Ryanair ], while BA / Iberia passengers don't. It's Ryanair, and since when do they work for the passengers?
     
  25. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    I quoted the RyanAir T&C section above that deals with tax changes post-ticketing:

    4.2.2 Taxes, fees and charges imposed on air travel are constantly changing and can be imposed after the date that your reservation has been made. If any such tax, fee or charge is introduced or increased after your reservation has been made you will be obliged to pay it (or any increase) prior to departure. Similarly, if any such tax, fee or charge is abolished or reduced such that it no longer applies to you, or a lesser amount is due, you will be entitled to claim a refund of the difference from us.


    Let's look at what BA's stated policy is per their General Conditions of Carriage, section 4b3:

    4b3) Taxes, fees and charges change constantly and can be imposed or altered after the date we have issued your ticket. If they change or if a new tax, fee or charge is imposed after we have issued your ticket, you will have to pay us any increase. Similarly, if any taxes, fees or charges you pay to us when we issue the ticket are then abolished or reduced, you will be entitled to claim a refund from us. If you are a resident of, and your flight departs from, the Federal Republic of Germany, any increase in taxes, fees or charges will not be applied in the period of 4 months from the date of purchase of the ticket.


    Oh look... basically the same policy as RyanAir! Who'd have thunk it!?

    Now, BA (and IB) are generous in this case. Or more likely they figured out it was to their advantage not to enforce this rule in this case, after all they are a business and not a charity.

    As for RyanAir not working for the customer... I sure hope BA/IB work for their shareholders first. Because as a publicly traded company that's their legal responsibility as far as I know.

    But let me try to explain it again, this time from the customer perspective:

    You're a RyanAir customer. You're used to nickel-and-diming. So now Spain slams another Euro 1.72 on your trip from Spain and RyanAir charges your debit card for it. What's the big surprise here? That's what you EXPECT. And it doesn't ruin you financially. You are not going to stop flying RyanAir because of this.

    Now you're a BA business customer. You charged your expensive business trip to your credit card and now BA wants to come along and charge another Euro 172 to your card. That just pisses you off, even though your employer will ultimately pay for it, because YOU have to deal with expensing it.

    Now you're a BA leisure traveler. You have chosen BA because you can't stand RyanAir and EasyJet. You want to fly a real airline. Now BA comes along and charges your credit card for Euro 1.72 to recover the tax and points to their T&Cs. That just pisses you off, even though it won't ruin you financially, but you question why you didn't fly RyanAir in the first place.

    The End.
     
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  26. uggboy
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    uggboy Gold Member

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    It shows that BA / Iberia are more flexible.


    Charity, no! But, it remains good thing for the passenger.


    In the end Ryanair passengers who have booked before the 1st of July will be charged retrospectively, while BA / Iberia passengers won't. There is no escape from this fact.
     

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