Goodbye Amex Relationship

Discussion in 'Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles' started by benolaa, Oct 1, 2014.  |  Print Topic

  1. benolaa
    Original Member

    benolaa Gold Member

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    So much for Amex last US partner:


    Notice of Change to the Membership Rewards Program


    Delta SkyMiles Program Transfer Allowance

    Effective January 1, 2015 Delta is making a program-wide change limiting the number of points that can be transferred into a SkyMiles account from any partner loyalty program, including the Membership Rewards program. As a result, there will be 2 important changes that will limit the total number of Membership Rewards® points that you can redeem for Delta SkyMiles: (1) the total number of Membership Rewards points that can be transferred out of any Membership Rewards account into one or more Delta SkyMiles accounts will be limited to 250,000 points per calendar year, and (2) the total number of Membership Rewards points that can be transferred into any individual Delta SkyMiles account will be limited to 250,000 points per calendar year. (A "calendar year" is 12:00 am MST Jan 1 through 11:59 pm MST Dec 31).

    To view additional information regarding these changes please visit membershiprewards.com/delta or call 1-800-AXP-EARN (1-800-297-3276) or the number on the back of your Card.

    As a reminder, through December 31, 2014, you may transfer a maximum of 999,000 points to a single SkyMiles account on any given day.

    The detailed change to the Terms and Conditions of the Membership Rewards program can be found below.

    Detail of the Change

    The terms of the Membership Rewards program are subject to change in accordance with the program's Terms & Conditions. This notice formally amends the Terms & Conditions as described below. Any terms in the Terms & Conditions conflicting with this change are replaced fully and completely. Terms not changed by this notice remain in full force and effect. We encourage you to read this notice and file it for future reference. If you have any questions about this change, please call the number on the back of your Card.

    Effective January 1, 2015, the Who can transfer points subparagraph of paragraph 1 of the "Using Points" section of the Membership Rewards Program Terms & Conditions is amended by inserting the following sentence at the end thereof:
    "You can only transfer 250,000 Membership Rewards points per calendar year into the Delta SkyMiles Program."
    We recognize this change will impact your Card Members but we remain committed to exceeding your expectations by continuing to deliver value through the Membership Rewards program. We greatly appreciate your business and look forward to serving you and your Company for years to come.

    Sincerely,

    American Express Customer Care
     
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  2. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    So, DL started out by limiting the number of miles that non-high-spending flyers can earn from flying by instituting the revenue-based system, which some bloggers thought was not so bad since miles that were no longer being earned from flying could be made up for with CC spend miles. Now DL has cut to just 1/4 (from 999K to just 250K) the number of miles that one is allowed to transfer from at least one CC program (AMEX MR) to a Skypeso account.

    How much longer before this yet another devastating change initiated by DL includes limiting transfers from other CC accounts? And how long before UA institutes a similar limit on transfers of Chase UR points to MileagePlus accounts?

    At DL, it is open season on frequent-flyers and on the very concept of a loyalty FF system, with UA only too happy to do the copycat act...:(
     
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  3. daninstl

    daninstl Gold Member

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    How dumb. Although I would be hard pressed to transfer that many miles/points into the program I think it's a mistake. Sure a few mileage junkies use this but the main customer that would transfer vast amounts of points are ones that spend a lot personally or professionally. If you alienate them they may go elsewhere with their business and THESE are the people you want as customers. You know the ones that spend a ton or have unlimited budgets. Foolish.
     
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  4. mattsteg
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    mattsteg Gold Member

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    So basically forcing top-ups or to redeem for 1-2 premium seats only (pending whatever new charts come out next) with amex points. It's how I've used MR with DL anyway so not a huge loss...but certainly an issue for people with massive piles of MR points.

    And I think the old limit was 365 times higher than you'd mentioned, @NYCUA1K ...at least from the copied text.

    The optimist could claim that this is evidence that Delta is valuing their points more highly, reducing the supply, and allowing for reduced inflation and better value rewards. The pessimist would say that Delta is pushing harder to control more spend directly on their cobrand cards, plus force people to either buy or fly (at reduced earning) the rest.

    I would expect those who transfer large amounts of MR in either just have tons to burn or preferentially book high-value awards at higher cost to delta. Also they are probably working to cut down on mile buy/sell/trade so that people buy "from the source".

    I wonder how much this cuts down on "legitimate" customers vs. people operating outside the published terms of the program?
     
  5. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    This is from the text in the OP: "As a reminder, through December 31, 2014, you may transfer a maximum of 999,000 points to a single SkyMiles account on any given day."[/QUOTE]
     
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  6. mattsteg
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    mattsteg Gold Member

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    Yes, so up to 999000*365 points per calendar year, or ~1/(4*365) rather than the ~1/4 you'd cited.
     
  7. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    [Currently: 999,000]/ [after change: 250,000] = 3.996, i.e., total yearly allowance after change will be just 1/4 of the current yearly allowance.

    ....unless the 999K is the current daily allowance and not the yearly allowance, which would make things even more insane!
     
  8. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    This is an interesting move, indeed.

    The number of people moving more than a quarter million points per year is likely relatively low. And selling points via any 3rd party partner is generally a good thing. At the same time, however, Delta is likely to benefit more when the points are earnt directly through a co-branded card versus a transfer in from 3rd party cards. And there is no doubt that Delta is doing its best to maximize profits on every front.
     
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  9. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    It is a daily limit. Quite clearly stated as such in the OP and on the AmEx MR website.
     
  10. BamaGirl
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    BamaGirl Silver Member

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    I can't imagine wasting MR points by transferring them to DL. Much more useful for getting Suites on Singapore :). Or international FC on Cathay, Emirates or even ANA.
     
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  11. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    Well, I read that but thought it was a mistake because it is truly insane to go from practically no limit (999K/day) to just 250K/year. Is that insane or what?!
     
  12. mattsteg
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    mattsteg Gold Member

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    That all depends on where you want to go, how many MR you have, and how many and where your miles are. Can't see much of the world only sticking to 3 asian carriers and one middle eastern one.
     
  13. MSPeconomist
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    MSPeconomist Gold Member

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    I suspect that the previous limit was a pragmatic one based on how many digits the IT systems could handle. Otherwise why wasn't the limit one million per day?
     
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  14. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    Good point. For all practical purposes there was no limit, since one could transfer just under 365,000,000 miles/yr.
     
  15. bigx0

    bigx0 Gold Member

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    Perhaps DL is hoping people who have 10 million MR points will transfer them to SkyMiles before the end of the year to beat the change. Then come next January DL can totally devalue the sky pesos (I mean even more than they already have) and screw these high spenders twice.
     
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  16. BamaGirl
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    BamaGirl Silver Member

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    Sorry I wasn't very clear. My point is that IMO, MR has many more worthy partners to transfer to than DL. I just picked those three because they provide such a stellar experience in FC. (Since I have over one million DL miles awaiting use I may be an outlier :)).
     
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  17. mattsteg
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    mattsteg Gold Member

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    MR's strength has been in the variety of partners. DL is probably the best general purpose skyteam airline in which is a point in its favor, ananif you restrict yourself to flying only where there is IFC on a "good" carrier you really restrict yourself. Obviously if you have more miles than you can use in a program there's little value to transfer more, but depending on earn rate and goals it can easily be just as pointless to save up for the carriers you list.
     
  18. lapointdm

    lapointdm Silver Member

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    I don't see this hurting the average consumer, but I am flumoxed on why Delta is choosing to do this at all. Were there really so many people transfering more than 250K/yr that they felt they had to put the kabosh on that?
     
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  19. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    I guess that is the point: there were not that many. The way I view this move is that it is the prelude to cutting down on miles from CCs to match what will happen to miles from flying after they migrate to the revenue system...
     
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  20. lapointdm

    lapointdm Silver Member

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    You're probably right about that. Sometimes I think airlines have a group of people dedicated to find ways to reduce benefits.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014
  21. Counsellor
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    Counsellor Gold Member

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    Does Starwood still allow transfers into Delta (not that I can see why anyone would want to trade Starpoints for Skypesos, but it might be an indicator)?
     
  22. daninstl

    daninstl Gold Member

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    They do have a full staff of people that work in the rewards departments to maximize benefit for the airline, hotel, etc. In order to do this many times it reduces benefits on the backs of the customers. Many try to walk a fine line of devalue in hopes that the client base don't realize or don't notice it. Folks like us on MP are really into all this. The average person on the street that doesn't pay much attention doesn't know or isn't in a position to do much about it. They choose the airline based on routes or hubs,etc. Maybe corporate travel requirements and the loyalty program is just extra but not a focus. Sometimes by the time they notice it's when they rarely try book an award and wonder why the benefits are so poor or no seats are available 3 weeks out. Some of them turn around and write articles for news outlets that say how bad it is but they don't realize the true impact or how to work around it. They just see snapshots and not trends like we do. The loyalty managers just hope not too many people notice and I doubt they care so much for those that are just working the system for full advantage.
     
  23. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    AmEx says that Delta is changing the rules overall to limit total transfers in, not just from AmEx.

    And, as for why Delta is doing it, selling miles through 3rd party is generally good revenue for the programs. But they also like to control that flow a bit. And by tying customers looking for the big mileage numbers only to SkyMiles rather than the more fungible points currencies they get more control.
     
  24. MSPeconomist
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    MSPeconomist Gold Member

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    One suspects that DL earns more from the same purchase on a DL affiliated AmEx card rather than a regular nonaffiliated AmEx that earns MR points. Perhaps they hope that limiting transfers will drive people to their cards.

    Or perhaps they see a few people transferring in huge number of miles and using them for mmultiple premium cabin award tickets despite not otherwise flying DL. DL might prefer that the award inventory go to its own real customers, especially elites.
     
  25. WilliamQ

    WilliamQ Gold Member

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    I am leaning towards to this answer which is very possible especially if one has a business that generates tons of MR which you then redeem their tickets.

    Or there could be this guy...
    http://milepoint.com/forums/threads/422-860-000-amex-points-from-single-purchase.93804/
    http://milepoint.com/forums/threads/422-860-000-rewards-points.93820/
     

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