Get More Acquainted With Your Knees as Boeing Reworks 737

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Travel' started by Newscience, Jul 25, 2014.  |  Print Topic

  1. Newscience

    Newscience Gold Member

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    Get More Acquainted With Your Knees as Boeing Reworks 737

    This article describes how Boeing is fitting 11 additional seats into the economy class section of the 737 airplane, while the business class section is getting lie-flat seats and 15 inch video monitors. In this instance, the future of air travel is to enjoy the comfort of business class, or suffer in coach class seating.

    Read this story at:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...ed-with-your-knees-as-boeing-reworks-737.html
     
  2. blackjack-21

    blackjack-21 Gold Member

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    I've seen enough of my knees already. No need to shove them in my face for longer transcons. Next enhancement will be paid standing room lean-against "seats" with bicycle handlebars for balance. Tassles on the handlebars will be an extra charge though, but elites will have their choice of colors for no extra fees. :rolleyes:
     
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  3. timfrost

    timfrost Silver Member

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    Once again Boeing takes the flak for something that is wholly a carrier option. :rolleyes: Granted it is Boeing that is working to MAKE it a carrier option, but at the end of the day it's the airline that decides how many of us chickens get crammed into the coop.

    Even though the article has a whole paragraph about the fact that it's the carrier's choice, the title is a bit unfair.
     
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  4. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    On the other hand, no one is forcing Boeing to modify the aircraft design to add another door to make it even possible to put more chickens in the coop. I guess one could argue it's competitive pressured demand from the airlines, b ultimately both the airlines and the aircraft framers care about their financials more than about my knees and butt.
     
  5. estnet
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    estnet Gold Member

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    I remember when air travel was MUCH nicer compared to bus travel - now, for some short routes in Asia the bus is much more comfortable than the plane (eg SIN-KUL0 - plus you don't have to go through security. Wonder if we'll see luxury buses anytime soon LA - sfo, sfo-fat, etc.
     
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  6. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    Was that before they installed fully reclining or lay-flat seats and suites plus, multi-channel AVOD and internet service? :)
    Just curious... how many seats across were there on a DC-9 or 10?
    Perhaps my memory is just not quite as short as some here. :)

    Does anyone remember when AA installed MRCS? ..and the reason it was not a commercial success?:(
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  7. cchagadorn

    cchagadorn Silver Member

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    I've been flying AA since the mid 1980's and I still think AA's More Room Throughout Coach seats were some of the best coach seats I have ever sat in (except for the lack of IFE, but who had that in coach in the 1990's anyway).
     
  8. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Quite true. As we know all the airframers are doing all they can to satisfy the LCC's and almost all carriers are dying to compete with them.
    Commercial reality is doing that quite nicely without aid from airframe ingenuity. The good Mr. O'Leary is more creative that most, if one can survive his flights. I personally, to my joy, have no idea with it must be like apart from what i see in photos.
    Oh, sweet nostalgia!
     
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  9. eponymous_coward
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    eponymous_coward Gold Member

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    I remember when plane tickets were well beyond my ability to pay for them, as well as my family's. My dad packed a lunch to work and mom made clothes for us to save money; $1000-2000 in the 1970s for plane tickets for four (plus rental cars when we got to where we were going) would have been silly when we could drive to California in a day or two...

    As it was I didn't sit in a first class seat until my 30's. My daughter's logged more miles in the first class cabin than I logged in coach by the time I was 30 (I can count my plane trips before 30 on one hand).

    So I'm not exactly nostalgic for the days where air travel was nice in coach and completely unaffordable... oh, and there was the time my sister coughed across the country because she ended up next to a chain smoker...
     
  10. estnet
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    estnet Gold Member

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    Well if you're in business it's not the same, but coach - no contest!
     
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  11. estnet
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    estnet Gold Member

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    Not nostalgic, but coach (didn't fly anything but many years ago) used to be an event (well, maybe the seats seemed bigger when I was a child), but they also used to put small packages of cigarettes on the food trays - even for minors. For me it was amazing when I had the very unusual chance to fly coast to coast as a child. We couldn't spend a week or more each way driving, but flying certainly wasn't something I could do (when I was older) with anything like the frequency I do now.
    I spent many flights suffering from second hand smoke - and one of the highlights of "law" for me personally was when they stopped smoking on planes VBG
     
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  12. Newscience

    Newscience Gold Member

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    According to the article: “With this, we’re just giving our customers another option to make more revenue,” Penning said by telephone. “If their routes can take this additional capacity, then that’s more revenue for them.”

    So, yes, many airlines are (some perhaps for the first time), and in a not-so-good US economy, making wheelbarrows full of money. In the process, most of them nickel-and-dime their customers to make $millions in added fees, and they have all found ways to add narrower and extra seating in peon class.

    It's simple economics for the aircraft manufacturers, given the new airline business model. And Boeing most likely wants to stay in the business of making airplanes - versus the alternative - and so it's simply following good business practices and staying in business.
     
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  13. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    But that's exactly the point isn't it? Airlines in the age of higher operating costs (fuel, new planes, higher landing fees, higher taxes etc etc) have catered to those who are prepared to pay for the additional comfort.
    However some of their costs must by necessity be borne by maximizing the service limitations for all those other pax who want/expect to pay $100.00 to fly JFK/LAX .

    It simply comes down to getting what you pay for.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
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  14. blackjack-21

    blackjack-21 Gold Member

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    "It simply comes down to getting what you pay for."

    Or not! ;)
     
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  15. B1BomberVB

    B1BomberVB Silver Member

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    In the 1970s a US Federal agency called the Civil Aeronautics Board required all airlines to charge the same fare, which it set/ approved, to prevent "cutthroat" competition. Airlines had to file for rate increases or decreases, as electric companies still do today. Because they could not compete on price, they competed on service & luxury. Southwest flew only within Texas, which was not subject to CAB because it was inTRAstate, not inTERstate.
    Then the Reagan Admin. abolished the CAB & instituted a "free" market in airlines, which fortunately led to AA inventing AAdvantage but unfortunately led to the airlines tyrannizing us with non-refundablity & Sat. night stay requirements. And now we got Px who are cheapskates as mentioned by Newbluesea!
     
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  16. blackjack-21

    blackjack-21 Gold Member

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    Obviously, anyone who sits in the back of the bus is a "cheapskate" in your eyes. Let us know when you're paying for your own tickets in full for those $12,000+ F seats across the pond.
     
  17. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    Well given the apparent sensitivity of some here I did not or would not use the term "cheapskates" ... "price sensitive" would be more appropriate. :D
     
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  18. anileze

    anileze Gold Member

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    Not Reagan, but Carter.
     
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  19. Newscience

    Newscience Gold Member

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    Old RR fired the Air Traffic Controllers when they (Professional Air Traffic Controllers - PATCO) went on strike in August 1981.
     
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  20. daninstl

    daninstl Gold Member

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    I'm no big fan of Govt regulation in private industry but as some point I'd think that the FAA would tell the airlines that they have to allow a certain minimum of isle area between seats so that the aircraft can be exited properly in an emergency. I was just reading some reviews of the coach seats on the 777-300ER and I don't think I would fly it on a long flight if I had to fly in coach. It sounds painful for a tall person like me.
     
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  21. blackjack-21

    blackjack-21 Gold Member

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    Just as painful for a shorter middle/old aged person with "middle aged spread" to be sitting in a 17" wide coach seat for a long flight, except in a different physical location. Try flying in an E-145 from YYZ-IAH for just over three hours and thirty eight minutes and you'll know what I mean, when the same pain comes as on a TATL eight hour flight in a seat only 2" wider.

    Cheapskates, maybe, thinskinned and sensitive, hardly. At my advanced age I'm more crinkled, wrinkled and scraggliskinned then ever and definately not sensitive or thinskinned as implied. So the cheapskates comment, or even the price sensitive reply, while every right to make them, also gave me the right to reply, now being relegated to the back of the bus, where, of course, all the kettles, once a decade or less flyers, unwashed masses, riffraff, peons, or other similar complimentary titled pax are seated. You may be surprised how many people behind the curtain have actually paid for their tickets with their own money or hard earned FF miles, and even find some former elites who no longer get their flights paid for by companies they work for, or if so, they only get coach tix bought for them. Or even a family who saved for years to bring their young kids to see Mickey, Minnie, and Donald in person for the first time. On a 300 seat aircraft, with 10 full F seats, 10 full J seats, and the rest either regular economy or "premium seats" in coach full, who do you think is paying to keep that plane in the air? If on a long TATL or TPAC flight with most of the economy seats on a majority of the flights empty, how long do you think the airline would keep flying that route, even with all the filled elite seats?

    So enjoy your almost warmed nuts, faux bubbly, and not so great any more F meals. And you have every right to complain too, after paying some ridiculously high fare (or not, as your company foots the bill) yet still having to pay to reserve your favorite seats (BA) that may or may not be with a full 180 degree recline depending upon where you're placed in the aircraft.

    GTG...BBL..., my wife just informed me that once again, it's time for my yearly shower. :rolleyes:
     
  22. B1BomberVB

    B1BomberVB Silver Member

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    I myself am price-sensitive & make aggressive use of FF miles. By "cheapskates" I mean people who expect something, such as air travel, at an unrealistically low price, such as $100 each way from coast to coast, as was offered in the great fare sales of the 1990s! Such people forget that general inflation + rising fuel prices have doubled (or more) the costs of airlines since then!
     

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