German Court Upholds Overnight Cargo Flight Bans in Frankfurt

Discussion in 'Miles & More | Lufthansa, SWISS, Austrian/Partners' started by Lufthansa Flyer, Apr 4, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. Lufthansa Flyer
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    slightly off topic, but affects LH dramatically. The court basically shut the door on any over night ops, primarily when cargo traffic arrives and departs.

    I wrote up a bit re: the decision along with the reuters story on a blog post earlier this evening.
     
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  2. Gaucho
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    stupid decision...... then folks worry why the economy is so bad.... :confused:
     
  3. Seacarl
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    This cannot end up being a good thing for LH or FRA.

    Get a life people. Modern airplanes aren't louder than a truck or the freeway sounds.

    NIMBYism sucks
     
  4. Lufthansa Flyer
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    If you read the article, one resident said that the plane flies 50 meters over his house. Extremely unlikely that a plane would be 150 feet over his roof. But thats what LH and Fraport are up against, along with a court sympathetic to the plight of the people & economy be damned.....You'll see, LH will be villified as the bad guy if they have to shut down cargo ops......And if I'm CEO Franz, with their intent on saving billions over the next few years, Cargo becomes an easy target to help find the cuts unfortunately.
     
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  5. Seacarl
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    I was in FRA in November, and the NIMBY idiots had a march through the FRA terminal. They made a heck of a lot more noise than a plane makes.
     
  6. General_Flyer
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    In all honesty, it seems silly of the court to declare a ban. Aren't there any evidence supporting LH's position that should be strong enough than a couple of people who can't seem to sleep even when there's a mouse squeaking in their homes?
     
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  7. Seacarl
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    I wasn't there and didn't read all the articles, but my recollection is that getting approval for the 4th runway involved some political compromise which included a restriction on nighttime operations. Perhaps that restriction wasn't sufficiently specified or FRA thought it mean for the 4th runway and the NIMBYs thought it meant the whole airport. I don't think the court decision is about whether there is any harm or any basis to ban nighttime operations, but rather these people sued to enforce some aspect of the agreement which allowed the 4th runway to be built.

    I have the feeling that LH might be better off with 3 runways, 24 hour operations, and control of 80% of the slots!
     
  8. TRAVELSIG
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    Any quantifable impact which LH has mentioned as of yet on this?
     
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  9. Lufthansa Flyer
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    Every monday at 2p........At least they're gone.
     
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  10. Lufthansa Flyer
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    It may lead to the grounding of their DC10 cargo operations. No decisions expected until q3. wonder if its a bluff, but I can't see LH playing those kinds of games.
     
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  11. Gaucho
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    Im surprised that a German Judge would have so little common sense....
     
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  12. Gaucho
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    how has the LH stock price reacted...?
     
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  13. Seacarl
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    Judges are not asked to use common sense. They are asked to interpret the law and contracts. The ban may make little common sense, but perhaps it was part of an agreement to build the runway.

    I would agree that it is very counterproductive to the German economy and the FRA region. FRA creates a lot of good jobs, and the areas around the runways are not heavily populated. I hope the politicians will find a way to resolve this. But I can tell you that the band of protestors that banged and drummed their way around the airport every week was very loud and determined.
    I would not expect that the cargo-only operations would have a big effect on the LH stock price. But more restrictions on FRA cannot be good.
     
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  14. LETTERBOY
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    Can't speak for Germany, but here in the US, judges are not known for common sense. Of course, neither are the rest of us, but that's another story. :D
     
  15. Gaucho
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    Im not sure I agree.... looking at how the US justice system works, its hard to think that most of the appointed folks on the Benc dont have common sense... sure, they have to pay attention to the laws, but if most judges didnt use common sense Im sure the entire US justice and law enforcement institution would not work as it does, which all in all functions quite well.
     
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  16. Rambuster
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    Only problem being that the German economy is doing quite nicely, thank you very much.

    The night flight ban was part of the deal to get approval for the 4th runway. The local government tried to negate this after the runway was opened and surly lost in court. Annoying , but all according to the law...
    This is to blame on the Christian Democrats running the state of Hessia in Wiesbaden !
     
  17. Lufthansa Flyer
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    fairly unresponsive. its been range bound as of late
     
  18. ralfkrippner
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    Well I do think that FRAPORT and its owners at the state of Hessen and the city of Frankfurt did a lot of errors in the process of getting approval for the 4th runway.

    IMO it was an OK move to promise a night flight curfew - but it should have been more specific on a few (was it 17?) allowed flights and it should definitely have included rules for flights a few minutes late for takeoff or landing. At the moment there are absolutely no flights allowed to start after 22:59, including those already on the move from the gate to the runway. This results in no more scheduled flights after 22:30 because the risk for a delay and the cost to accomodate a few hundred pax over night is just to high. Also if a flight is a bit early in the morning should it circle above FRA or be allowed to land, say from 4:45 on...
     
  19. Seacarl
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    I hope they find a pragmatic solution
     
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