Gay tourists in Russia could now face two weeks in jail

Discussion in 'Europe' started by uggboy, Jul 4, 2013.  |  Print Topic

  1. uggboy
    Original Member

    uggboy Gold Member

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    || Gay tourists in Russia could now face two weeks in jail ||

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  2. marcwint55

    marcwint55 Gold Member

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    Putin as a piece of garbage and anyone who follows that law is ignorant.
     
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  3. uggboy
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    uggboy Gold Member

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    .....but, he has the power, at least for now. The law is total garbage too, let's hope that people power will fight this.
     
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  4. TravelBear

    TravelBear Gold Member

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    You gotta wonder what the Olympic committee is gonna say about this. Talk about pushing out competition. Any gay athlete is taking their safety into their own hands by stepping into this country.
     
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  5. LETTERBOY
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    LETTERBOY Gold Member

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    He's trying to re-fight the Cold War. You know that saying that some people in the US are still fighting the Civil War? That's what he's doing with the Cold War. He doesn't realize (or if he does, he doesn't care) that the world has changed.

    And for a while to come, probably, unless he has health issues that no one knows about.

    That's rather naive. Russia has never been all that friendly towards gay rights, so most people there are probably in favor of this law, or at best, indifferent. And Putin & the government don't really care what anyone (inside or outside of Russia) thinks.

    The IOC is a mess of politics, so they may not say much of anything. And even if they do, as I said above, Russia won't care. Short of threatening to pull the Games, nothing will have much weight. Even a threat to pull the Games probably wouldn't work. The Games start in 7 months, so logistically it would be a nightmare. If a threat to do so was made, Putin may just call the bluff. If a threat were followed through on, he would be able to use it to bash America & the West politically, making himself even more popular.
     
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  6. guberif

    guberif Silver Member

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    Pretty sure the IOC would hold the games in Syria if the sponsorship dollars were there.

    Also, agree on the Putin political capital statement.
     
  7. guberif

    guberif Silver Member

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    First stealing Kraft's super bowl ring, and now this.
     
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  8. LETTERBOY
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    LETTERBOY Gold Member

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    Absolutely they would. Remember Berlin in 1936?
     
  9. guberif

    guberif Silver Member

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    Summer 2020 games selection supposed to happen in 2 months. What do you all think about Istanbul's chances???
     
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  10. LETTERBOY
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    LETTERBOY Gold Member

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    Personally, I don't think Istanbul has a snowball's chance in hell, partly because of the unrest in Turkey at the moment. There's really no way to know what the IOC voters are thinking, though. The selection process was supposed to be cleaned up after the Salt Lake City mess, but who knows how that worked out.
     
  11. Fredrik
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    Fredrik Silver Member

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  12. maksim

    maksim Silver Member

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    Look at the Middle East. It is only in the socialist leaning countries where these are issues, to take your mind off how bad everyone else is being screwed.

    Honestly, in Russia, most people are either against, or indifferent to gay people. It does not mean they are bad people or that you will be thrown in jail for being gay. If a radical muslim starts screaming alah is great in the middle of times square... how quick before he gets arrested?

    The Russian Representative Democracy elected the officials, and the bill, represents the voice of Russians. Putin signed it into law. He did not make this an executive order.

    More importantly, unlike this original post, as well, let's be honest, I doubt many people actually clicked on the link...

    "The law introduces fines of up to 200,000 rubles ($6,700) for "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations" to minors through the media or Internet, which may cause a "distorted understanding" that gay relations and heterosexual relations are "socially equivalent," the law reads."

    It has nothing to do with "Walking while gay" type stuff.

    Take the tinfoil hats off guys. We are getting more screwed in America. Spying on Americas, lack of moral regard to unborn children, sending guns to Mexico which end up killing Americans, amnesty for illegal aliens and criminals, sending military arms to radical Islamic regimes..... all while stripping more and more rights of its own people and sending the government broke.

    Besides, as travelers we should be completely in tune with respecting other cultures.

    Russian people are far more religious and believe in moral values far more than here. In 20 years... Asia and Russia will be where the wealth and jobs will be.
     
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  13. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    Wow, lots of arguments. Let's see if I got everything right.
    Legalized gay bashing in Russia should not be discussed because:
    1. Russia can be benchmarked only against Middle Eastern theocracies.
    2. Russians are "not bad people".
    3. Putin "represents the voice of Russians".
    4. The subject is uncomfortable. It should be changed to spying on Americans, or guns in Mexico.

    Actually, the world opinion does make a difference. I don't have a link handy, but I've read recently that the St.Petersburg Legislative Assembly is now proposing to reverse the city's gay bashing ordinance. They are concerned by the negative impact on St.Petersburg's image in the world, and the resulting loss of income from tourism.
     
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  14. maksim

    maksim Silver Member

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    Ok, let me be crystal clear.

    1. I am of Russian culture by birth. Born and raised in soviet union. Came here when I was 9 years old.
    2. I am jewish.

    Marriage is a religious institution. As such, anyone who is of Judao-Christian faith, if they are strict observers will not support marriage besides a man and woman.

    I subscribe to that idea. I feel marriage, in the religious sense should be between a man and a woman.

    I am a financial planner, and I have plenty of gay clients. They are awesome people, and I firmly believe they should have all the legal rights as anyone else. Gay couples do lose certain benefits because their relationship is not seen in the same legal light.

    I FIRMLY want them to have the same legal rights, however.... I do not want the name "marriage" to mean anything besides a religious ceremony between a man and woman. Call it anything else.

    Now, as far as Russia, this is not about gay bashing, this is about a culture who is far more religious having their right. Let them be. Unless you are Russian, and hold a Russian passport, it is not your place to mingle and tell them how to live their life or what to believe in..... much like Middle Eastern countries, where they choose to have strict observance of their faith, and do not want tourists to start humping on the beach.

    When you are in someone else's house, you have no rights to teach them how they should think.

    John Locke.... Your rights end where my nose begins.

    The sad part is... the same moral values on which the United States was founded upon, no longer exist. Americans are more concerned about other people's business, who the celebrity of the day is, who got kicked off American Idol, than spending 20 mins educating their kids.

    I am only 30, and not long ago graduated college. Out of the 100s of resumes I received for a job I posted, 40% had major grammatical issues, and nearly 80% of the people I interviews, had the self entitled mentality that they were owed a job.

    Parenting? When did it become the norm to put on a DVD or give your kid an iphone to play video games to shut them up?

    I guess my gripe, and I apologize, long day, is as a foreigner who actually seems the opportunity this country was given by the founding fathers, and to see the vast majority of the population take it for granted? Disturbing.

    So when I see these various articles, and Americans in general trying to lecture other cultures about the moral values they SHOULD have.... but don't? It's frightening. We as a society have more issues, and rather than trying to lecture others, we should of taken 20 mins and spent it with our kids.... maybe even teach them how to write cursive. (obvious remark to the Trayvon Martin/Zimmerman case, where the 19 year old witness could not read or write cursive.)

    Get ready guys, in 20 years, you will be working for an Asian boss and will need to speak Mandarin or Arabic. Spanish will help too.
     
  15. LarryInNYC

    LarryInNYC Gold Member

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    To my mind this conversation has drifted far afield from anything vaguely travel related and into an area in which it cannot fail to give offense.
     
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  16. maksim

    maksim Silver Member

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    I blame it on ignorant posts like this.

    Actually this has very little place on a travel forum anyway, particularly since the original quote and post was MEANT to cause drama, and is completely slanted for headline effect, no better than what MSNBC or Drudge would do.

    I apologize If my replies took it too far, however I take personal offense to people bashing other cultures or beliefs that are not their own.
     
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  17. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    I was married in the state of California, by a representative of my home town, in a civil wedding. There was nothing religious about it. No one asked me what my religion (if any) is. I paid for a marriage license and got a marriage certificate.

    If I was gay, I would see no reason why I shouldn't have had the right to the exact same treatment. I am not gay, but I see no reason why my fellow gay residents of California shouldn't be ale to buy the same marriage license and get the same marriage certificate.

    I don't expect that a priest of a religious organization be required to marry gay people...
     
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  18. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    Pretty interesting that you are upset that someone posted a statement critical of your Russian leader and you claim to be upset when others bash other cultures YET you launched into your own rant on just about all aspects the "American culture" as you seem to see it.( tinged with your own little morality lecture) :rolleyes:

    Perhaps one the thing you haven't learned here as yet is that it is very "American" for others to have and hold their own divergent opinions no matter how stupid you might think they are.
     
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  19. marcwint55

    marcwint55 Gold Member

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    I too am a Jew of Russian ancestry, with relatives still living there. I'm also a financial adviser who feels that this is beyond a doubt the greatest country in the world. I've been able to provide a wonderful life for my wife and three children that probably would never have occured in another country.

    I find it amazing that you can talk about America the way you do when hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered for no reason in Russia during Stalin's regime. Many of my relatives left there due to the poor treatment given Jews which continued for centuries.

    You should know only too well how anti-semetic the history of Russia has been throughout history.

    If you truly feel Russia is better than America you should return there. There are many people in Russia who would love to come here and are unable to.

    I was in Russia approximately one month ago and found the people to be wonderful and not discriminatory towards others.

    If the majority of people feel that something is right, (although I doubt that the majority of people in Russia truly wish to discriminate against gays) that does not make it right.

    When Americans owned slaves and blacks were not allowed to vote even after they become free people, it was certainly not right.

    I travel extensively and have great respect for other cultures, but if something is morally wrong I am not willing to condone it.

    I have been a conservative republican all my life, but when my party is wrong I will not agree with them.

    Who someone loves is their business, not ours.
     
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