FYI from the rumor mill - Pacific service changes

Discussion in 'United Airlines | MileagePlus' started by violist, Aug 22, 2013.  |  Print Topic

  1. violist
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    violist Gold Member

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    We will announce 2014 international flying changes Saturday
    Over the past several months, Network Planning worked with all of our operating divisions to develop United’s 2014 international flying plan. We will load the schedule into our system on Aug. 17. The new schedule reflects our ongoing work to put the right aircraft in the right markets to earn a sufficient return, which includes the addition of SFO-KIX (Osaka, Japan) Boeing 787 service.
    First, we are moving some of our Boeing 747 flying back to ORD. Last year we decided to move all of this flying to SFO to improve the reliability of this fleet. Now that reliability has been restored, and we have a plan in place to better support the fleet, we can put the 747 on the routes that are better suited for the number of passengers the 747 carries. We will return the 747s to ORD and fly three routes: ORD-PVG (Shanghai), ORD-NRT and ORD-FRA (Frankfurt, Germany). We are matching those routes with 747s out of SFO to PVG, NRT and FRA; this route structure will continue to allow SFO maintenance to be the primary maintenance location and improve fleet profitability.
    “We carefully selected these routes to generate the best performance from both a profitability and a reliability perspective,” said International Planning Managing Director Andrew Buchanan. “Our Tech Ops team did an outstanding job bringing this fleet back into an ongoing maintenance mode and are making the necessary investments to operate the aircraft reliably out of Chicago. We feel confident about moving some of them around the system carefully and selectively.”
    We will also use 777s instead of 747s in the LAX-SYD (Sydney) and SFO-SYD markets and on the SFO-LHR (London-Heathrow) route. We’ll also replace a 777 with a 747 on the NRT-HNL (Honolulu) and SFO-NRT routes.
    In addition to the 777 and 747 swaps, we’re also replacing a 747 with 787 service from SFO-KIX beginning April 8. “While SFO-KIX is a successful route for us, the load factor on the 777 is relatively low, so using the smaller, more efficient 787 there will improve results while allowing us to redeploy the 777 to routes with higher demand,” Andrew said.
    With all of these decisions, we intend to better align capacity and operational cost of the aircraft to the amount of profitable demand in those markets.
    “It’s important to keep in mind that demand and profitable demand can look very different,” Andrew said. “Our airline is a business, and businesses need to make money. We believe these changes will help us achieve a greater level of profitability for our airline, which in turn benefits our co-workers and all of our stakeholders.”
     
  2. tommy777
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    tommy777 Co-founder

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    Some good news. I'm surprised ORD-HKG is not back as a 747 route.

    777-200ER seems pretty optimistic LAX/SFO-SYD some times of the year. Maximum range of the UA model is 7700 miles while the distance to SYD is about 7400 miles. It is definitely not recommended for those city pairs.
     
  3. tommy777
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    tommy777 Co-founder

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    And I think it's more than a rumor:

    http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel...77s-for-australia-flights-20130819-2s5yi.html

    Aging my a**. The newest 747 is from 2000, lots of them are from the late 90s and the oldest one is from 1990. The majority of the 777s UA has, including PMCO, are from the 90s.

    It's going to be fun fun fun getting an upgrade on the SYD routes :p
     
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  4. Hartmann
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    Hartmann Gold Member

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    ...
     
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  5. desamo

    desamo Gold Member

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    SFO-KIX!
     
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  6. rggale
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    rggale Gold Member

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    Kid tested, mother approved! (tm)


    [​IMG]
     
  7. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    Just in time for my JFK-LAX or SFO-SYD next March!
     
  8. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    That's apparently the polite way to write "unreliable, poorly nmaintained and beat up."

    ;)
     
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  9. HubletUAFlyer

    HubletUAFlyer Gold Member

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    Upgrades to and from syd are going to become extremely difficult and the wait lists are going to be long
     
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  10. Misplaced Texan
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    Misplaced Texan Gold Member

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    As much fun as the plastic princess is, the route exists today on the 744. So it's only mildly interesting.

    I'm more interested in the restoration of key routes to 744 service out of ORD. Hopefully they really have figured out the reliability issues with running those airframes out of a second airport.

    Sent from a place using a fruit thing.
     
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  11. Captain Oveur
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    Captain Oveur Gold Member

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    Not sure what the big deal is about ORD-FRA on a 744. They have done that seasonally for many years.

    The bigger news is the 777 to/from SYD. Wonder if they lightened up the plane somehow to squeeze an extra few hundred miles of range out of it.

    As for upgrades to/from SYD.....HA!, like UA cares about upgrades to its best customers. Wouldn't be surprised if GPUs will be reduced or a thing of the past soon.

    Not sure this is about operational reliability more than possibly getting more money out of cargo.
     
  12. tommy777
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    tommy777 Co-founder

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    But but but they were talking about removing the booking class requirements last year ...??1!? :p
     
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  13. tommy777
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    MAXIMUM range is 7725, SYD is 7451.

    http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/777family/pf/pf_200product.page

    Wouldn't be surprised if we get some fuel stops parts of the year like the 757s or the TATL RJ if you want ;)
     
  14. genemk2

    genemk2 Gold Member

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    I thought SFO-SYD (via gcmap) is only 6,400 nm (=7,400 statute miles).

    The range on the 777-200ER is 7,725 nm (per your link).

    Even with route variations, I can't imagine that SFO-SYD is more than 6,800 nm.
     
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  15. Captain Oveur
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    Captain Oveur Gold Member

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    Trust me, I'm skeptical about UA, but I have to believe they're doing something such as lightening up the load, adding winglets or something. Having 274 "spare" miles seems pretty damn risky.
     
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  16. genemk2

    genemk2 Gold Member

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    As noted above, I think there was a math error. The 777-200ER should be able to handle it just fine. It's more like 1,300 extra miles.
     
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  17. Misplaced Texan
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    Misplaced Texan Gold Member

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    I wouldn't be stunned to see an occasional tech stop in HNL or something.

    They've already made it clear that 95% non tech stop and 5% tech stop is acceptable.

    Though, in fairness, 95% reliability is a lot better than pmUA was managing with their SYD flights.

    ETA: Never mind, I didn't bother verifying the units issue here. Many of my graduate professors would be :mad: at me for ignoring units.

    Sent from a place using a fruit thing.
     
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  18. EWR764
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    EWR764 Silver Member

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    LAX/SFO-SYD are both shorter than ORD-HKG, which, as we know, is now operated by sUA 777. I don't think this will be a problem at all for the 777. People forget that 747s to Australia are often weight restricted as well.

    A few other changes were noted in that release, including confirmation that the 764 will stay on HNL-EWR/IAD/SFO(1X), 777s return to HNL-LAX/DEN, 2/3-cabin 763ERs are replacing some 757s EWR-LHR, and domestic widebody flights will include IAH-EWR/IAD (67E) and IAH-DEN/SFO (787).

    Most of these changes have not yet been loaded, but were indicated on a chart.
     
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  19. COFreqFlyer
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    COFreqFlyer Gold Member

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    Hopefully this chart works out...

    From To Initial
    Heading Distance
    SFO (37°37'09"N 122°22'31"W) SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) 240.4° (SW) 7417 mi
    LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'29"W) SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) 241.2° (SW) 7488 mi
    EWR (40°41'33"N 74°10'07"W) HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) 351.7° (N) 8065 mi
    ORD (41°58'54"N 87°54'24"W) HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) 338.2° (N) 7793 mi
     
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  20. goalie
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    goalie Gold Member

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    As if the waitlists aren't long now? ;)
     
  21. TheBOSman

    TheBOSman Silver Member

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    Talk is cheap, but so are TOD upgrades ;).
     
  22. genemk2

    genemk2 Gold Member

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    That's still statute miles, and the ranges for aircraft are given in nautical miles. It's a huge difference.

    This is the correct chart:

    From To Initial
    Heading Distance
    SFO (37°37'09"N 122°22'31"W) SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) 240.4° (SW) 6445 nm
    LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'29"W) SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) 241.2° (SW) 6507 nm
    EWR (40°41'33"N 74°10'07"W) HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) 351.7° (N) 7009 nm
    ORD (41°58'54"N 87°54'24"W) HKG (22°18'32"N 113°54'53"E) 338.2° (N) 6772 nm
     
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  23. COFreqFlyer
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    COFreqFlyer Gold Member

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    Valid point, one which I freely admit I overlooked.

    The main point I wanted to make with my chart was that the EWR-HKG route is still the longest by mileage, as compared to LAX-SYD, and has been operated by an sCO 772ER since its inception. I will also grant the point that the polar route has somewhat less effect from winds aloft, which may play into the LAX-SYD route a bit more.
     
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  24. rggale
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    rggale Gold Member

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    I am begging to know what happened to all of the sCO 772s? It seems that the only "new" post-merger route for them has been the NRT-SIN tag-on, and many routes have been taken away by 763s and sUA 772s...
     
  25. COFreqFlyer
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    COFreqFlyer Gold Member

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    NRT-SIN next Sunday (9/1) is operated with an sUA 3-class 777. As is the return on 9/5. Only reason I know is that I'll be on them.
     
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