Do you want really good Coffee from Brazil?

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by jbcarioca, May 13, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    It is beyond time to discuss serious coffee requirements...

    Mrs jbc and I are coffee fanatics, a species that is rare in brazil, but rapidly growing. We have Jura machines (four of them!) that grind the coffee beans directly and search constantly for the best beans. Two of our family members grow coffee commercially, but are of the typical low quality brazilian beans.

    really serious coffee drinkers in Brazil often do not use sweeteners, but the ordinary coffee is usually loaded with lots os sugar or sweetener, even more so in major cane producing areas.

    The generic Brazilian supermarket coffee brands (e.g. Pilâo, Bom Dia, etc) are fairly low quality and roasted almost as espresso. Most of them have a mixture of arabica and robusta beans. Robusta beans are used worldwide mostly for instant coffee and coffee flavorings. Directly the stuff is unpleasant to drink.

    During the last few years there has been a steadily growing trend to producing higher quality and organic coffees in Brazil. There are still few growers that have enough capacity to sell in supermarkets, but the supply is rapidly increasing as new plantations in Rio de Janeiro (reestablished 17-18 century ones, mostly) and Minas Gerais are becoming mature.

    Three seriously good, world standard, Brazilian coffees are:

    Native Orgânico- this one is distributed nationally in both beans and ground versions and is also sold in some other countries. They also have several non-coffee products. The website is in English and Portuguese.http://www.nativealimentos.com.br/en/
    native café.JPG

    Taeq Orgânico- this is produced for Pâo de Açúcar, a Rio de Janeiro based supermarket chain that is affiliated with Casino of France. Taeq is the Casino house brand and there are a wide variety of high-quality low-price organic products available there.
    http://www.taeq.com.br/data/Pages/LU...4941PTBRIE.htm
    taeq café.JPG

    Verdemar Orgânico Sul de Minas- Verdemar is a small supermarket chain in Belo Horizonte, Minas Gerais. They buy green coffee, roast it in their stores and sell in both in bulk and in prepackaged versions. The Sul de Minas varietal is quite famous in France and italy and is widely available in those countries in high-end coffee sellers. We discovered it in France and it has been our favorite coffee for soem years. Recently Verdemar began selling it.
    http://www.pastadellamammaverdemar.com.br/
    verdemar sul de minas.JPG


    Beware, if you want excellent Brazilian coffee do not buy the generic supermarket brands that are widely sold. Those have the sole advantage of being cheap, but will disappoint any serious coffee aficionado.

    In most high-end Brazilian restaurants the coffee sold will be Nespresso or Illy and will use the worldwide ubiquitous coffee capsules that are very, very good, but imported to Brazil. Illy even has Brazilian coffee exported to Italy, repackaged and exported to Brazil.
     
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  2. gleff
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    gleff Co-founder

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    Thanks for this, great post. I admit I know little of Brazilian coffee. I have a Jura machine, grind fresh roasted beans for each cup, I generally order Indonesian beans from Old Bisbee Roasters. But am always on the lookout to try something new.
     
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  3. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    You're welcome. Despite the history high quality Brazilian beans are harder to find than are the excellent Sumatran beans, among others. BTW,I have had the Old Bisbee Tierra Espresso blend many times and found it to be delightful.

    Are not Jura machines wonderful? I bought my first one in France in 1985, the day I first tasted coffee from one of them, which was installed in the Swissair Travel Club lounge (do you remember that? It was the SR invitation-only ultra VIP status). Mrs JBC and I induced the helpful SR hostess to find out where we could buy one in Nice. Upon landing at NCE we rushed off to buy one even before we went home. It was instant addiction! At the time we lived also in two other countries so we bought machines for all three. Since then we have bought them for my mother-in-law and sister-in-law probably to ensure that we'll not be deprived when we visit.
     
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  4. gleff
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    gleff Co-founder

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    When I first bought my machine it felt indulgent, but I scoured and searched for a deal. I bought one new for not much more than a reconditioned machine, it was a model they were discontinuing, so I convinced myself it made sense.

    And now I can't imagine my mornings without it, and I'd have happily paid retail.

    I've been using the machine for 5 years now, last year it seemed on its last legs and it was far beyond any warranty period but I rang up the manufacturer and they had me ship it back to them. They did a complete rebuild for ~ $200 all-in, and it came back like new.

    Funny thing is it really does save me money, I'm skeptical of any sort of claim made about that kind of thing but it's true, I drink more coffee in the morning before leaving home and I don't want most coffee shop brews since it doesn't stand up to my ability to have the fresh beans I want ground for my cup exactly as I like it.

    If there's one specific Brazilian bean I should try, considering I like a deep, rich, dark bean best please offer that suggestion :)
     
  5. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    It is hard to find such in the USA. As a one time, quickly expiring offer, because you are my personal fare-optimizing guru, and a generous man to boot...

    The next time we'll be in the same place at the same time I will personally deliver some Verdemar Sul de Minas Orgânico for you. It will be completely free, no charge at all. You need only pay the shipping charges, which will be one Kiva loan made to a borrower who has something to do with coffee.

    Fair?

    If I make it in the SMD4 LP I'll bring to to DC with me.
     
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  6. gleff
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    gleff Co-founder

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    More than fair! :D

    I'll actually be in Brazil come Thursday, but only transiting GRU enroute to IGU.
     
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  7. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Wow! Have a great time. Where will you stay? Hotel das Cataratas, I hope.
     
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  8. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    Hey I have my own suppler ( a relative on the island of course :)) of Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee ...even the instant version ( and I know I am being blasphemous here :D) is pretty good.
     
  9. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    No blasphemy here IMO. Instant coffees have had massive improvements recently. Some of them use high quality arabica also, like the Jamaica Blue Mountain does.

    Speaking only for myself, all I want is excellent coffee. That, BTW, is why I do not use Starbucks. I do not like stale bitter coffee. OTOH, the world is probably better off for them. Remember typical pre-Starbucks US coffee? I do!
     
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  10. DCtrAAveler
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    DCtrAAveler Gold Member

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    You have me drooling over the Jura machines. Now I have to figure out how I can possibly justify replacing my standard drip machine with one of them :)
     
  11. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Whatever you do I suggest you do not talk with either gleff or me unless you want to make the leap. BTW, as good and easy as they are you'll spend more money with Nespresso and you'll save a bunch with Jura. Nobody I know with a Jura (Bosch and others also make equivalent machines) buys much coffee outside any more.
     
  12. misman
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    misman Gold Member

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    I hate it when I alternate to AZ for 6-weeks as my Jura stays in NM. Like gleff above, mine is in need of a reconditioning, but I haven't made that leap yet. Still makes damn good coffee, though.
    Do you experience any jamming in your Jura with these beans? I've been told to avoid the "oily" beans as they will tend to gum up the grinder.
     
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  13. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    I have no jamming, but I clean the stainless filter (just behind the protruding plastic lip above the grinds bucket) every day, and I rinse the machine between cups. You don't say which model you have; some models (e.g. "J" series) have an automatic rise. Others, especially smaller and older ones, do not. The older machines are more susceptible to jamming form oil build up and constant rinsing and cleaning of the filter does alleviate that.

    When leaving the machine for more than a few days I rinse several times, clean the stainless filter very well and empty the beans. I have not had problems returning form long trips since I started doing that. With four machines in four countries for some years I became obsessive about that. I send the machines off to Jura for deep cleaning about every other year, the old models I do every year. Of course I have a cheap solution (costs me about $30) compared to the US because I do it with a commercial coffee machine repair person rather than Jura themselves.
     
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  14. misman
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    misman Gold Member

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    I have an E8, and it does a rinse every time it is turned off and on. I don't clean the stainless filter, but I've tried to get back there to do it. Just can't seem to contort myself well enough to get in there.

    I let the beans run out before my trips, and drain the water before I leave for any amount of time. Other than the regular cleaning and the quarterly de-calcification, I don't really do much else.

    I get what I think are good beans from Trader Joe's; however, I'm sure there are much better out there. You could probably put Folger's through this thing and get good coffee!
     
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  15. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    One of mine is an E8. Let me see if I can find a way to photograph the screen, or at least describe how to do it. That is one of the odder ones to clean. Bizarrely Jura does not explain the filter cleaning on any model I've seen in any language I read (comparing French, German, English and Portuguese on the same Jura model is good for some laughs)
     
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  16. tondoleo
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    tondoleo Gold Member

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    Thanks for this thread. My bride is the coffee fanatic in the family. I occasionally indulge. She only grinds her own beans and then uses a French Press. Are you emphatically stating that this Jura contraption would make a world of difference in her coffee drinking experience?
     
  17. misman
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    misman Gold Member

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    Only if you like really good coffee in 2-minutes :D (that is from start up to end. if the pot is already "on", it's less than a minute.)

    Seriously, if you can find a local retailer, they will often grind you a cup of coffee so you can try it.
     
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  18. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Many people prefer the French Press. Many do not. If you can dodder down to The Falls to Wliiams-Sonoma they almost always have demonstration brews. You certainly do not want to buy before confirming incipient addiction. Otherwise you'll waste money you could better use making Kiva loans.
     
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  19. tondoleo
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    tondoleo Gold Member

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    Thanks for the sage advice. The MPKLT appreciates the shout out.
     
  20. misman
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    misman Gold Member

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    Just started the process to have my E8 refurbished. Will have to ship it, and be without it for 2-weeks, but it should come back like new.
     
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  21. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    good luck, misman it will be as good as new if my experience is any indication
     
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  22. romeo99

    romeo99 New Member

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    Hello,

    please advice me about 5-7 different kinds of Brazil coffee with high quality and low price. i want to export then in wesr Europe. you are very qualified in this thing and i am asking for your competent answer. thnx for advance.
     
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  23. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    There are no coffees to be found with both high quality and low price as far as I know. Arabica, organically grown, Fair trade beans are the most expensive, apart from exotics, of course. Robusta is much cheaper but it is lower in quality and mostly suitable for ground coffee blends and instant coffees.

    I have no special knowledge of the wholesale coffee markets anywhere, including brazil. Maybe someone else here does.
     
  24. romeo99

    romeo99 New Member

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    thnx for your reply. i know some brazilian coffees like is pilao, baggio coffee, cafe do ponto...what do you think about them are they good and tasty?
     
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  25. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Pilao is a generic cheap coffee used primarily because ti is cheap. Cafe do Ponto is a coffee shop chain and has a generic arabica that is acceptable but not outstanding. I have never tried Baggio as far as I know. The one I find the best currently is the one listed first in the top of the thread, Native Organico Espresso. If you want to import coffee you'd really rather import the raw beans, roast and label them yourself, I'd think. Brazilian beans are widely distributed globally, rarely under Brazilian brands.
     

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