DL signalling elimination of rollover? Beware the censors!

Discussion in 'Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles' started by redtailshark, Nov 18, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. redtailshark

    redtailshark Silver Member

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    On my SM Medallion page, there's a new line:
    Medallion Level: *best in class* Plat
    Future Medallion Level: FO

    We all know how Jeff and his minions like to handle devaluations to SM... hide them, then blast everyone with a retroactive/no-notice change. This new sentence warning SM members might be their effort to be "transparent" and remind their members, yoo-hoo, we warned you...lookee what to expect next year.

    Some days ago, before I experienced theft at Brussels Gare du Nord and then the opulent AC Y cabin on their 333, I attempted to post this on FT. However, the thread was terminated with extreme prejudice. It simply vanished. To the puzzlement not only of those who saw it briefly, but a number of DL flyers whom I contacted by PM.

    There are powerful interests at work on the DL board and over at FT that wish to suppress open discussion of these matters, and others. But the thing is, with social media, Stalinist attempts to control discussions are doomed to failure and they undermine the credibility of the board and those engaged in controlling speech. It is, just like SM, *best in class*

    At this point, I don't care about DL status. Somehow I'm going to make GM this coming year anyway. But I look forward to the howlings from the hoodwinked DL faithful as they see something similar to the T-72 debacle. How about, I translate the JeffSpeak for you?

    Dear SM members, rollover termination as of Dec 10th....enforced immediately, so all you complacent DM with 250k surplus MQM banked...gotta buy more DL J tix to stay in the game! And as for you regular biz flyers, if you want status, suckers, pay up for those $3200 one-ways in full Y on the SAV/HSV-ATL RJs.

    Mwahahaha!

    I say, Jeff was honest with everyone. He was so right when he stated DL SM is:

    * best in class*
     
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  2. n301dp
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    n301dp Silver Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  3. DeacFlyer1
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    DeacFlyer1 Silver Member

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    Sounds like you've got your tinfoil hat on!

    I'm not a DL elite, but unless I were in a situation where I flew at minimum 175,000 miles/year and could be really far on my way to Diamond Status the following year after a roll over, I would be opposed to this...this rollover idea has to inflate DL's elite ranks to an incredible degree. Delta already has an incredibly large number of elites, and rollover miles have to make it worse. Who cares if you're gold or platinum when 60 other people on your flight are as well?
     
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  4. Deltalina
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    Deltalina Silver Member

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    Welcome to MilePoint. Hope you stick arount :rolleyes:

    This is the best summary I could do of your post:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. sithlord
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    sithlord Silver Member

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    Its too bad the ff program is so bad because the customer service is best in class.:(
     
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  6. rwoman
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    rwoman Gold Member

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    redtailshark,

    Do you have a legitimate source or is there mere speculation?

    I'm assuming there's a reason the FT mod's deleted whatever thread you posted. there...not sure how the "future status" on dl.com profiles = termination of rollover.

    And if it does...many of us do not require rollover to remain elite level fliers...we were FO/GM/PM before the onset of DM or rollover.

    The crowd here does not get as spun up nearly as quickly as our FT brethren tend to do.

    robin
     
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  7. kyunbit
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    kyunbit Silver Member

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    Not really.. If you flew even 70K a year, it may make sense. 50K gives you Gold and 20k rollover towards next year.

    I would argue it would make sense if you flew 35-40K too.
     
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  8. redtailshark

    redtailshark Silver Member

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    It could be classed as speculation...but that would depend on how close you are to DL insiders and what they're prepared to tell you. Ask yourself this: why else would Jeff take the trouble to create a new line on DL.COM presentation that states what your future level will be, when for years, the only presentation has been "Medallion Level"?

    What possible purpose is there, other than as a legal foil when they rescind rollover... "oh but I expected to remain GM because..." "No sir/madam, if you look at DL.COM you will see that it clearly states your 'Future Medallion Level'. It has done so since October 31st 2011. We believe it is the right course to clarify to our loyal customers what level of benefits they can expect from SM. We apologize for failing to meet your expectations this time and we hope to welcome you back to our *best in class* airline again soon."

    As for FT, I've been online there since 03. Each forum has a different culture, however, there is overall moderation on top of various levels of "moderation" on the boards.

    A reason for thread deletion on FT? Nope. None was given either on the board at the time, or via PM or any other channel like email. It just vanished *kazoom* Interestingly, even the DL regulars with whom I talk - we don't have to agree about the DL product or SM to hold dialog - found this to be surprising. I don't. It fits the pattern on FT.

    The DL apologists and mods are censorious and create a climate of suppression of honest exchange. Just like DL does on its social media. It strives to scrub. Any entity that makes this its goal should be automatically suspect.

    As a result of this climate of suppression of dissent and the control of opinion exchange, I can't believe how so many intelligent people bend over backwards on DL to excuse what are clearly DL's efforts to make SM redemption less transparent, impractical and even impossible - sometimes in contradiction of their own published T&C. "MH is not a SkyMiles partner" and other such falsehood...repeated by many agents. "Call back!" is the ridiculous mantra from apologists. Why? To waste more of my time, with more agents who either lie intentionally or don't know anything about their own program. My life is too short for this. I want to visit CO.COM, select the itin, at Saver or SleazyPass, click "book" and go...for the mileage advertised. No bait and switch. No BS.

    At DL and on the FT DL forum, it's all a touch Orwellian.

    They find my use of the phrase *best in class* to be...well, *best in class* Mwahahaha! I was termed "disruptive" and banned from DL aeons ago. I say, it amuses me greatly that this phrase was Jeff and Rick's own, that it appeared in Sky Mag, at the large billboard at LAX T5 checkin, on DL.COM and other places. So, they created it...let them live with it. There would be no irony at all if they had a program similar to AA's or UA's because there would be no contradiction between this claim and reality. They and the apologists won't hear the end of it. Hoist by their own petard!

    Back to the upcoming SM devaluation. It's clearly a fact that there's a new line in the SM account. A number of people have wondered why. I'm offering a thesis. I think it's consistent with previous DL behavior, which we all know. If you think this impossible or even implausible, think carefully on the recent T-72 award change moratorium/debacle for all Medallion levels, or the overnight doubling of mileage requirements for intra-Asia redemptions this spring.

    No, let's face the facts. What's implausible is that this development has no significance for SM members. It's implausible that it's just a benign "accident."

    I look forward with interest to forthcoming SM program announcements...wait, they haven't announced that 2012 program detail yet, have they? Hmmmm.....
     
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  9. rwoman
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    rwoman Gold Member

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    I agree with you that there are, no doubt, ISSUES and *Best in Class* is laughable at times! We'll see what happens...if rollover stays or goes away, well, I'm okay with that..

    Did they even release 2011 program details? For some reason, I'm thinking they either did not do so or it was really late...
     
  10. mtkeller
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    mtkeller Silver Member

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    I think there's a pretty simple explanation here. We're nearing the end of the membership year, so DL is putting up your current status and the status you'll be as of 1 March 2012, if you don't earn enough to move up. Come 1 January 2012, this will be pretty helpful for members.
     
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  11. DeacFlyer1
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    DeacFlyer1 Silver Member

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    I'm not saying it doesn't make sense for individual members, at least on paper. All I'm saying is great, you got Gold, or Platinum, or whatever...but so did a million other people because of these rollover miles. So sure, you have your status, but it's not worth as much because the status is so diluted. I work with a number of Platinums on Delta who don't get upgraded that often, and a lot of times they'll say "yeah, I was 34th out of 61 on the upgrade list today"...that's because part of the issue is that Delta's status ranks are over inflated because of these rollover miles.
     
  12. JosephMay

    JosephMay Gold Member

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    My Delta Page shows this year Gold, Next year Gold. Exactly what I expected....No surprises.. Am I missing something???? On the routes I fly mostly (NYC-LAS) I'm nearly 100% upgraded. Elite heavy routes not so much... No Suprises there also. 90% of the crews I've flown with have been terrific. Thats been a surprise. Although I didn't love my SLC- NYC Crew on Wednesday... And my FA on PSP-SLC seemed to be annoyed the whole flight.
     
  13. Deltalina
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    Deltalina Silver Member

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    You sir/ma'am, need a tinfoil hat.
     
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  14. TravelerRob
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    TravelerRob Silver Member

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    Personally I hate rollover and wish DL never implemented it. Having said that, I have every intention of using it to its fullest advantage into 2012 as I stopped flying DL months ago and switch to UA/CO. I will still rollover enough to maintain DM status for 2013. Then next year I can decide whether to move back to DL or not.

    I know why DL did it years ago but it should have been a one-time program IMHO, if at all.

    -RM
     
  15. redtailshark

    redtailshark Silver Member

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    Yeah...right, just like everyone here wears one of them...
    http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...ated-award-redeposit-reissue-rule-change.html
    But, then maybe it's true and they all do now :)

    Almost everyone acknowledged it was * best in class *

    Corporate shills have an easier life defending the defensible. That doesn't include DL's management and operation of its SM program.

    DL have managed an amazing feat, of creating Medallion levels so valueless that people don't want to cross the next higher threshold. Or that they could care less about dropping levels. A unique accomplishment indeed.
     
  16. redtailshark

    redtailshark Silver Member

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    Wow! Now there's a new DL shill over on FT.

    "So I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised in further years.

    Whether its an airline integration or a financial system integration and so on and so forth, the same issues will appear and manifest itself as firms integrate networks. It is a very complex time consuming task and often flaws will manifest themselves for awhile till the systems are fully solidified and integrated and then new feature adds could be implemented down the road.

    There is a difference between knowledge and understanding and just assuming everything will be perfect. In life that is never the case, there is always more work to be done to make things better for future flyers down the road.

    Delta has done exceptionally well in its integration so far and it impresses me there have not been more serious flaws than the small ones people here are going after right now which low and behold will most likely get rectified if it significantly matters.

    So to Delta: Job well done."

    Mwahahaha! Yeah. Now, that's *best in class*
    "It [DL.COM] does work perfectly fine. The flight was simply sold out and you have to wait till the final screen comes on for availability check."

    That claim is even beyond * best in class * That's superlative!
    And what was that about tin hats?
     
  17. TheMadBrewer
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    TheMadBrewer Silver Member

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    Well, my "Future Level" says DM -- and since without rollover I have only 100K MQM this year, rollover must still be in effect for 2012.

    That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if they eliminated it for 2013. Wouldn't surprise if they didn't, for that matter.
     
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  18. RestlessLocationSyndrome
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    RestlessLocationSyndrome Silver Member

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    Hmm, not sure why people dislike rollover... it's simply a way of encouraging people to keep flying with DL and not switch simply because they've reached a status level they are happy with and want to earn status elsewhere.

    Unless I'm mistaken, there are more benefits to status than just upgrades and if there happen to be people who have earned higher status and are upgraded more than others at a lower status, how is that unfair?

    It would be unfair to make negative changes to a program near the end of the year after allowing customers to do business with the impression that the posted benefits would continue. Not sure if DL has done that recently but UA certainly has.
     
  19. travelgourmet
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    travelgourmet Silver Member

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    Oh joy. So happy that RTS is here.

    In response to the question upthread, this was deleted from FT because it is nothing more than poorly supported trolling. It has no purpose other than to stir the pot. This sort of wild speculation helps nobody and has no place in a forum meant to help folks share knowledge and information. Despite the absurd insinuations that RTS has some sort of inside knowledge, this is the sort of speculation that, frankly, doesn't even deserve to be called a rumor.

    Ashamed I took the bait.
     
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  20. cliburn
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    cliburn Gold Member

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    Yeah I agree that OP jumping the gun here.... I am DM and DM next year.... I think DL just indicating where you are for 2012 status...
     
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  21. redtailshark

    redtailshark Silver Member

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    So glad you're happy that I'm here :) But I sense condescension and sarcasm. Apparently unlike you, I enjoy open debate and there's no need for anyone to be censored. We all lose when self-appointed censors attempt to control what is said.

    As for you attempting to retrioactively justify why the thread was removed, this is most interesting. If you're a mod on DL, you know you're being called out. Interesting how mods don't like it when they can't control the terms of debate. Typical of Stalinist entities and believers. And the affront when the insubordinate dare to appear in other venues, Oh my! Silence them quick! Oh wait, not so easy, they haven't disappeared and are still a "problem."

    If open expression of views on DL SM or any other product or service is a "problem" then it's clear to all that your problem is much bigger than mine.

    And if you aren't a DL mod using another handle, then you're confirming the interpretations that have permeated the FT community widely by PM. Your response is proving my point about apologists coordinating censorious activities with mods. One of the cabal no doubt.

    Even a number of DL apologists are aware that everything on FT is either "poorly supported trolling" or "wild speculation." If those were objective grounds for censorship, 90% or more of threads would not exist.
    You may be able to censor on FT, but thankfully, those driven by censorious impulses always lose on the Internet. We need a "Delta Spring" not just on FT but a coordinated denunciation and rebuttal of the "scrubbed" DL FB page and their other social media forums.

    It clearly disappoints you that I cannot be silenced so easily. You have to know, this makes my day! Mwahahaha!

    Hey, while we're here, you know that DL and the censorship are all *best in class* You got that, I said:

    *best in class*

    Hey Jeff and Rick said so, it has to be true. If it's not clear, I can repeat it again :)

    As for your implication that a poster like me could not possibly have access to inside info, you wish. That's "asbsurd insinuation." The fact that FT DL apologists and censorious mods don't agree with criticism of SM or their product and program doesn't mean I don't have contacts inside the organization. Even in BA of whose programs and products I have been more critical than I am of DL SM. In one case a BA management person invited me to Waterworld to discuss some of the issues. Likewise I find some of the front-line DL staff are much more in touch and objective about what works and what doesn't. They don't need to play games or insult the intelligence of the customers who see what's really happening. But they don't feel comfortable acknowledging these facts in public because they know that the BORG doesn't tolerate it. Corporate shills and apologists on the other hand..well.

    For instance, before I was censored from DL, one poster, a DL employee, stated through private channels "Our website is the worst in the business and I'm ashamed of it. Our management ought to be ashamed of it too. I know it doesn't deliver what customers need and we should stop pretending it does. We do raise these issues in internal memos but I do not see what happens. I do not know why they are not acted on." That was a little while ago, but nothing has improved since then.

    You'd have to have be living under a rock, or in thrall to Virginia Ave's publicity machine, not to know that trust levels in DL are at an all-time low. This lack of trust and confidence has nothing to do with me and everything to do with DL actions like the no-notice T-72 award change moratorium and the overnight doubling of award requirements for intra-Asia trips. It's quite a feat for a program to destroy as much goodwill and drive business away as rapidly as Jeff managed with that move.

    Unquestionably *best in class*

    When DL rescinds rollover, this will be the ideal thread in which to observe the reactions.
     
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  22. travelgourmet
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    travelgourmet Silver Member

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    You didn't just write this did you? Seriously, I am glad you are here. No sarcasm. No condescension. Honestly, this is the funniest post I have ever read. I defy you to read your post and not laugh out loud. I shot water out my nose when I read it.

    I mean, it is bizarre in all the right ways. It not only manages to elevate FT and SkyMiles to a place neither deserve to have in any normal person's life, but it throws in tin-foil paranoia to boot. The references to Stalin are like the cherry on top of the sundae.

    You almost had me. I thought you were serious, but clearly this whole rant is some sort of Ali G-style absurdist comedy routine. Bravo. Keep the laughs coming!
     
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  23. DiverDave
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    DiverDave Gold Member

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    Threshold benefits used to serve that purpose very nicely.

    Yet I am also wondering what has prompted Delta to add this line to the Skymiles summary page. Perhaps the intent is benign as you note, or perhaps this is the first clue to an upcoming program change.

    Like it or not, there is a history of negative Skymiles program changes being made with no notice. The 72 hour rule is the latest of these. History suggests it will not be the last.

    David
     
  24. n301dp
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    n301dp Silver Member

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    Would you be willing to share yours?

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Davescj
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    Davescj Silver Member

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    I'm another who like the roll-over. This year for example, due to travel changes, I did not hit DM. But it turns out in my fav, as I'll have 47K at the beginning of the year. As a result, my first two flights will ensure me as GM for 2013. I think it is a great way to get status early, AND reward frequent fliers.

    Dave
     

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