DEN-PTY service launching 3 December 2014

Discussion in 'United Airlines | MileagePlus' started by Wandering Aramean, May 7, 2014.  |  Print Topic

  1. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    Last edited: May 7, 2014
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  2. Rob
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    Rob Gold Member

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    I seem to recall that DEN-PTY service was one that Denver airport officials were pushing for - I wonder if there are any incentives in play that balance out the negatives of a long flight that's an overflight of a larger hub.
     
  3. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    UA can route more west-coast traffic via DEN rather than pushing it via IAH, keeping IAH for mid-west, too. Makes sense in a few ways, though we'll need to see what the flight times are before we can figure the full connection value.
     
  4. Flyer1976
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    Flyer1976 Gold Member

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    Denver will be an nice addition as there's no non-stop service from/to Panama for the Western part of the United States except from Los Angeles and Las Vegas on COPA.
     
  5. rggale
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    rggale Gold Member

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    Another potentially limiting blow to the Houston LatAm hub.
     
  6. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    Nah...that's like saying DEN-NRT limits SFO's utility as a TPAC gateway.
     
  7. rggale
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    rggale Gold Member

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    True...getting ahead of myself there...it's a 73G.
     
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  8. meFIRST

    meFIRST Silver Member

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    And another 737 when you get on Copa.
     
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  9. Ecuabuck

    Ecuabuck Active Member

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    Now what is needed is PTY/SFO for connections to Asia and the Pacific Northwest.
     
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  10. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    DEN can get you to NRT, though it will depend on flight timing as to whether that lines up and I'm betting not. And DEN can definitely connect you to much of the PacNW.

    For other Asia options there's IAH-NRT now 2x daily (I believe in large part to support LatAm connections to Asia) or CM via LAX.
     
  11. Pizzaman
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    Solid way to connect the Western part of UA's network with Copa. In the past, I've found pretty good availability on Copa through PTY to the Caribbean as well, though it's certainly the long way to get there.
     
  12. KenInEscazu

    KenInEscazu Gold Member

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    February's devaluations included the loss of CPU/RPU availability from northern South America. What I have yet to determine is what the rule would be in the even that I fly first on Copa to PTY making my first UA flight originate from PTY. Has anyone here had any experience with CPU/RPU availability in that scenario which would clarify my uncertainty?
     
  13. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    CPU/RPU is still in effect on UA metal to/from PTY and on all CM-operated flights. RPUs book in to Z on CM metal.
     
  14. KenInEscazu

    KenInEscazu Gold Member

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    Thanks, but are you sure that's the case when the flight originates, for example, in MDE? Routing through BOG definitely requires a GPU if booking on UA. I have been using Copa for all USA access, and I like them better, but their limited destinations sometimes make things challenging.
     
  15. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    BOG and PTY are different airports in different countries which are in different regions according the the UA policies.

    MDE-(CM)-PTY-(UA)-IAH/DEN/EWR would be eligible for CPU or RPU upgrades. The only thing I'm not 100% certain of is if a single RPU can cover both the UA and CM metal. I believe it can but I'm not positive. I know it requires calling in to get the RPU applied to the CM segment.

    As for limited destinations, CM serves more cities in the USA from PTY than UA does. CM has MIA, TPA, MCO, IAD, JFK, ORD, LAS & LAX (maybe more; those are off the top of my head). UA has IAH/EWR and soon DEN.
     
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  16. HeathrowGuy
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    HeathrowGuy Gold Member

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    One RPU covers both UA and CM metal, so long as each individual segment on either carrier is RPU eligible. And yes, the RPU must be manually applied by a United agent.

    CM has service to PTY from all of the cities you just mentioned, plus BOS and soon FLL. Copa connects more cities in the US than any other Latin American legacy carrier except Aeromexico, so there's nothing particularly "limited" about their services, KenInEscazu.
     
  17. KenInEscazu

    KenInEscazu Gold Member

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    I am quite familiar with the geography. The verbiage of the new rules (I can't remember it right now, and I'm not going to look it up) said that flights originating in northern South America would be excluded from CPU/RPU usage, and that a GPU or miles would be required for an UG. Since no UA metal departs out of any Colombian city other than Bogota, it implies that the point of connection is irrelevant.

    If you are correct, it would result in UA regaining much of my revenue which they have lost to Copa since the announcement. It would also mean that I could return to more sane scheduling, as I have simply been boycotting them for several months since they put this out. I'll still use Copa for destinations where the choice exists, but going to DFW as often as I do, I've had to be pretty creative to find value in flying Copa SJO/MDE-somewhere and then flying UA somewhere-DFW.

    Before all this mess started, I would always compare economy tickets against Z fares, and I often ended up just buying the Z for the guarantee and the 50% mileage bonus. Before returning to that pattern, however, I would just like to have some point of confirmation that it is so. It's logical, but that doesn't always matter. On Copa, I'm 100% on CPUs to/from the USA, and that goes back to when I was a mere CO silver. It's nice to "know" that I don't have to pay more to fly up front on Copa.
     
  18. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    It is a shame you are depending on your memory, unwilling to look up the actual rule and then question the answer provided multiple times. The rule is not what you remember and is pretty clear that flights to/from Central America on UA metal are eligible for both RPU and CPU; the origin point of the itinerary does not matter.

    http://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/mileageplus/awards/upgrade/default.aspx#regions
     
  19. KenInEscazu

    KenInEscazu Gold Member

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    Actually, my memory appears to be pretty good, after re-reading the chart. The only difference is that they have added the verbiage clarifying that Copa will give us CPUs anywhere they fly a 2 class aircraft, which is virtually anywhere they fly.

    Again, this chart says that South America requires a GPU. Since that excludes Bogotá and Lima this year, it still fails to clarify points originating within South America and connecting in Bogotá or Lima from those connecting in PTY, SJO or other points in Central America. It's clear as mud.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    You're not flying on UA to South America. The chart says nothing about origin point of the itinerary; it is about the segment you're flying. The rules have never been about the starting point of the itinerary, only about the segment being flown at that moment. Otherwise there would be no CPUs on domestic feeder flights for international itineraries, among other things.

    Fight me all you want, but I know the rules. This one is not hard to comprehend.
     
  21. KenInEscazu

    KenInEscazu Gold Member

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    I know I'm trying to push a rope uphill in attempting to explain this, but I'm not fighting you at all. Now that you explain it, I believe you. IMHO, UA could have and should have been far more clear in their communication about such a change, but I see your point of comparison about domestic CPUs and it makes sense.

    One thing UA did that really bothers me about this change even more than the relatively short distance between BOG and IAH is that their explanation was that they are providing true Business First service on these flights, with lay flat seats. I checked a couple of weeks ago for a potential trip I have coming up in August, and one of the IAH-BOG flights was a 757-200 with lay-flat seats, but the other was a 737-800.

    I can't imagine the disappointment someone who might have heard their explanation for the GPU requirement, paid the W fare, received the upgrade and then boarded a 737 might feel. If one were not paying close attention, I could sure see this being the result.
     
  22. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    No, it wasn't. They promised that many years ago when they changed LIM to not have free CPUs but that was back before the merger. This one was not at all about guaranteeing flat bed seats or any other BusinessFirst services/amenities.
     
  23. KenInEscazu

    KenInEscazu Gold Member

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    Aw Seth... You're always so diplomatic. :)
     
  24. alanro

    alanro Gold Member

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    I'll look forward to flying SFO-DEN-PTY-AUA next winter, and even more so to the return. Queuing for two hours to pre-clear US immigration at AUA is a hassle I'd gladly trade for Global Entry in DEN...
     

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