DELTA to Reduce Capacity to Tokyo Haneda from June 2011

Discussion in 'Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles' started by jimyvr, Mar 5, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. jimyvr
    Original Member

    jimyvr Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    18
    Status Points:
    95
    As per 05MAR11 GDS timetable display, DELTA from late-May 2011 is shredding capacity Tokyo Haneda with Boeing 747-400 replaced by 777-200ER.

    Detroit departure with Boeing 777 in effect from 31MAY11, Los Angeles from 02JUN11. Changes from Tokyo Haneda goes in effect from 03JUN11 to Detroit and 02JUN11 to Los Angeles.

    The 777-200ER aircraft to operate Detroit - Tokyo Haneda - Los Angeles - Tokyo Haneda - Detroit pattern, and per display, Boeing 777 service continues into Winter 2011/12 schedule.

    http://airlineroute.net/2011/03/05/dl-hnd-s11
     
    BondAir007, jbcarioca and n301dp like this.
  2. MSPeconomist
    Original Member

    MSPeconomist Gold Member

    Messages:
    58,563
    Likes Received:
    98,528
    Status Points:
    20,020
    Interesting....it looks like DL wants to continue service into this airport or at least wants to keep the slot, but perhaps ins't selling as many tickets (or isn't selling as many high priced tickets) as it had hoped/anticipated. I suspect business could pick up when more amenities are available at the terminal DL uses in Haneda.
     
  3. jbcarioca
    Original Member

    jbcarioca Gold Member

    Messages:
    17,507
    Likes Received:
    57,455
    Status Points:
    20,020
    It may well be seasonal also, since that route has lots of seasonal connecting traffic IIRC.
     
  4. MSPeconomist
    Original Member

    MSPeconomist Gold Member

    Messages:
    58,563
    Likes Received:
    98,528
    Status Points:
    20,020
    Why are the domestic connections in Japan so seasonal? I think of Japan as primarily a business route, with the downturn in business traffic around the holidays made up by family visits and student vacations.
     
    jbcarioca likes this.
  5. jbcarioca
    Original Member

    jbcarioca Gold Member

    Messages:
    17,507
    Likes Received:
    57,455
    Status Points:
    20,020
    I don't think they are. It is the US end I am thinking of. The DTW and LAX flights pick up traffic from, many places including all the US and Latin America too. Much of that traffic is highly seasonal. I am not claiming to know the details but I do recall seeing data that suggested 35-40% seasonal swings on projected loads, enough to easily justify changing form 744 to 777 and vice versa.
     
  6. Rob
    Original Member

    Rob Gold Member

    Messages:
    10,389
    Likes Received:
    14,166
    Status Points:
    16,520
    It's interesting to me that per http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2010-0018-0262 one of the reasons Delta was awarded LAX-HND was:
    And now that significant capacity has been significantly reduced.
     
  7. diver90
    Original Member

    diver90 Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,162
    Likes Received:
    3,250
    Status Points:
    1,970
    And it didn't take very long either, did it?
     
  8. jimyvr
    Original Member

    jimyvr Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    18
    Status Points:
    95
    On 07MAY10, I posted this statement which seems to make few people who appears to be loyal to DL uncomfortable. Apparently, my statement/prediction is 50% correct now. (At least they haven't cancel the route yet)
     
    Gargoyle likes this.
  9. jimyvr
    Original Member

    jimyvr Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    18
    Status Points:
    95
  10. BondAir007
    Original Member

    BondAir007 Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    Likes Received:
    4,998
    Status Points:
    2,425
    Interesting and good news. I hope this will work for Delta.
     
  11. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

    Messages:
    28,216
    Likes Received:
    61,745
    Status Points:
    20,020
    Didn't UA do something similar with a China route authority application? They initially put a 747 ex-IAD and then switched it a few months later.

    I wonder if UA will appeal the route authority given the smaller aircraft and try to grab the LAX slot for SFO service.
     
  12. jimyvr
    Original Member

    jimyvr Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    18
    Status Points:
    95
    Problem with DL is this is another series of "encore performance". Other airlines does the same thing but not repeatedly like DL. UA got the IAD PEK wasn't about capacity but rather the political significance of the "capital 2 capital". DL's advantage on LAX HND is capacity with 747-400.

    Unless DL gives up the route and return to the US DoT, there will be no appealing because it was set in stone last year.
     
  13. DeltaExpert
    Original Member

    DeltaExpert Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    7,598
    Status Points:
    6,570
    Does this mean lie flat seats then? ;) With the 777-ER to get lie flat seats this could become an improvement actually over the much hated 747
     
    Skyvillager and ryandc99 like this.
  14. jimyvr
    Original Member

    jimyvr Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    18
    Status Points:
    95
    While it is an product upgrade when switching to 772, people appears to have miss the point that DL was chosen because its plan to use Boeing 747 on US LAX - Tokyo Haneda, which capacity plays a major role why it won the award. (I've been reading the "debates" on a.net but looks like all have missed this)

    Excerpt from DoT:
     
    n301dp likes this.
  15. Scott Weinberg
    Original Member

    Scott Weinberg Silver Member

    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    295
    Status Points:
    500
    Yes, it will change the aircraft due to lows loads. Because the loads wasn't good enough at all. That's why DL wants to swapped the aircraft from 744 to 77E aircraft and this is better aircraft utilizations. The entire 744 will have freeing up some specific routes and I wasn't sure if DL will swapped the equipped from 77L to 744 for ATL-JNB-ATL.
     
    ryandc99 likes this.
  16. akghost
    Original Member

    akghost Silver Member

    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    60
    Status Points:
    145
    Looks like the 744 is being used as a bargaining chip to get the routes and then realistically being replaced. :p
    Yeah, perhaps to increase yields; improving the product is a good move. Also, the 744 is hecka lot more expensive to maintain etc.
     
    ryandc99 and DeltaExpert like this.
  17. jimyvr
    Original Member

    jimyvr Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    18
    Status Points:
    95
    You are not totally getting this (or you didn't even bother reading the excerpt from DoT)
     
    DYKWIA likes this.
  18. Scott Weinberg
    Original Member

    Scott Weinberg Silver Member

    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    295
    Status Points:
    500
    No, I didn't even bother with DOT either. Just a speculating about the aircraft changes.
     
  19. jimyvr
    Original Member

    jimyvr Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    18
    Status Points:
    95
    if you didn't even bother to read, then stop posting your speculation.
     
    DYKWIA and n301dp like this.
  20. Scott Weinberg
    Original Member

    Scott Weinberg Silver Member

    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    295
    Status Points:
    500
    Please don't even says that. Don't bothering me about the specific routes. Just stay out of my sight.
     
    DLNYC likes this.
  21. jimyvr
    Original Member

    jimyvr Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    18
    Status Points:
    95
    No one is bothering you nor asking you about specific routes.
     
    DYKWIA and Deltalina like this.
  22. travelgourmet
    Original Member

    travelgourmet Silver Member

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    202
    Status Points:
    360
    Can I ask... Who cares?

    Clearly, the capacity isn't needed. If it were, then DL would not be making changes. DL and/or the DOT overestimated demand. Change the gauge and move on. If and when the demand picks up, I'm sure that DL will swap in a larger aircraft. Way too much has been made of this opening HND thing in the first place.
     
  23. Deltalina
    Original Member

    Deltalina Silver Member

    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    342
    Status Points:
    450
    When you say 'many' tickets... consider that they are typically flying 1 pax per row on the 747. Surprised they aren't immediately switching to a 777....

    Given the loads into HND there's no way in hell UA would want it. DTW/LAX are DRAINING money.
     
  24. ClipperDelta
    Original Member

    ClipperDelta Silver Member

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    85
    Status Points:
    220
    They will not cancel the route because HND slots are precious commodities. They know they are going to lose money for a while until the time slot situation improves; the downgauging will help mitigate losses.
    You like to bemoan the fact that Delta "lied" on their DOT application, but they did not do anything illegal. They said they would use the 744 on the route, and they did (and still do, until May 31). Unless another airline wants to contest the route award because of the 744-to-777 switch, the DOT won't do anything; there is nothing in the DOT award that says that an airline will have to give back the award if it operates with a smaller aircraft. At this point, all of the HND flights stink for the airlines (except for HA's HNL-HND service) primarily because of the awful slot times. Even JL (and AA) and NH are reporting less-than-stellar performances on their new HND services, and they have the home market advantage.
     
    Gargoyle and ryandc99 like this.
  25. jimyvr
    Original Member

    jimyvr Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    18
    Status Points:
    95
    No one ever said that DELTA lied because they are using 747, and no one is calling DL to return the slot to DOT because it is not planning to fly 747 anymore.

    But my own prediction a year ago is now proved to be partially correct because that's how DL been playing with these route authority and slots in the past 2-3 years. All procedures are legal, and there is nothing wrong, but DL is manipulating these legal procedures to get what it wants, in this case, using 747 as a tool to win the rights for West Coast - Tokyo Haneda market. What makes DL think they can use 747 for year-round to Haneda when they can't even do 747 year-round LAX NRT and 2 Daily DTW NRT?

    LAX - GRU lasted for 2 months. ATL - PVG lasted for 6 months and now trying a come back. Attempt to switch authority for Colombia flight. Flying to new Brazilian markets for 6 months and quit. Failed attempt to expand LAX market 3 times in 10 years time, and now trying 4th.

    I am expecting a common/typical answer from DL-loyalist/pro-DL camp that those changes are due to market conditions which requires the need to cancel, downgauge, reduce operation. After all, it's a business that needs to run profitably. However, they all keep missing the point that DL apparently didn't do their homework quite well, and is manipulative with those route authority applications.
     
    DeltaExpert likes this.

Share This Page