Cruise ship accident- Italy- Sat. Jan 14 2012

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Travel' started by Gargoyle, Jan 14, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. Gargoyle
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    A cruise ship with 4200 people on board ran aground off the coast of Tuscany (near the island of Giglio). It sustained a 160-foot gash in the hull. At least three people died, and there is a lot of confusion due to all the nationalities and languages of the passengers. Embassy officials are going to various hospitals to see if any of their citizens are there.

    cruise-ship-tipped.png
     
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  2. mht_flyer
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    mht_flyer Gold Member

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    That's a unbelievable picture, it's quite a large ship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia

    There are still people unaccounted for, hopefully they are alright.

    On a side, Costa is owned by Carnival.

    The captain was arrested for abandoning ship and for manslaughter.
     
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  3. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

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    This is really, really bad.

    Titanic-esque in some regards, although I know "only" three dead so far.

    Still, the stories filtering out about the captain, and even more the chaotic response of the crew, are -- from what we've heard so far -- horrific. But Americans this afternoon tend to be talking more about the 49ers beating the Saints, and now the massacre unfolding in the Patriots-Broncos game. What would the news be like if that shipwreck was off the Florida Keys with 4,000 Americans on board?
     
  4. estnet
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    estnet Gold Member

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    The stories I've read are awful, chaos, lifeboats not working, untrained crew, safety briefings for passengers "talks about buying shore excursions" and no help to those in hotels by the cruise line "we were told they wouldn't provide even a change of clothes" per cruise critic :(
    40 missing and the captain in jail - how sad.
     
  5. Bay Pisco Shark
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    So, far, it looks like the Captain and Gilligan would have handled this better.
     
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  6. effseeoh

    effseeoh Gold Member

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  7. mtlfire

    mtlfire Gold Member

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    Last year I was on the Carnival Sensation in the Comedy club during the "adult" version of the show the comedian was making fun of the life boat drill. "What are all you people stupid? Do you actually think that if the boat was actually sinking all these crew members being paid 0.76$ an hour are really going to be standing there in a fluorescent vest telling you where to go? F**k no! They are going to be on the life boats first. Forget the vests, we should give them shirts that say "If you see me running, the ship is sinking, try and keep up!".
     
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  8. IkeEsq

    IkeEsq Gold Member

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    Department guidelines are to refer to them as collisions, not accidents.

    This is why you have lifeboat drills before leaving the dock, and make everyone bring their stanky life jackets. I am still stunned by the crew on board who said that it was an electrical failure. If the lights go out, water starts pouring into the ship, and ship starts listing at 10 degrees - THE SHIP IS SINKING.
     
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  9. newbluesea
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    As one who has worked the marine field for over 35 years the whole Costa Concordia episode does not at all surprise me. Personally I am only surprised that a serious accident on large cruise ship (and by serious I dont mean loss of life in under 100 pax I mean, many, many multiples of that number) has not occured as of yet but it will eventually happen I assure you.

    The megaships being built these with 4000 pax and 2000 are just way too large to be ever considered a controllable enviorment. The problem is compunded by the fact that in most cases the crew (and I mean the one dealing directly with the public) are barely or not at fluent in the languages of the passengers on board , added to that I consider the construction of most cruise vessels to be quite flawed if the intent is the ability to save all the lives on board in a catastrophic accident.
    If you think what happened on the CC would have been marginally different on any other large vessel or any other cruise line you have another guess coming.

    THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS IS TO AVOID PANIC
    I put it those experts here ( who I doubt has even been on a large ship).. would you rather the crew announce over the PA ..." the ships sinking... the ships sinking "? :rolleyes:
    A 10 degree list might not be even noticable, depending on where you are on the ship and tell me how would you know water would be coming in below the water line if you are 10 stories up??.

    Here a chilling fact:.. there recorded instances of physically larger vessels than the above sinking in under two minutes

    And usual there are often some ridiculous factoids put out by the media and they are in turn repeated by the public.
    a) People seem to think the captain in on bridge at all times.... fact ...vessel crews are required by law to maintain a rotation for obvious safety reasons, so they work (or "watch") in 8 hours shifts.. so the captain could very well have been asleep.
    The nonsense about the Capt " should go down with the ship or be the last one off".. is only perpetuated in the movies.

    b) No..and I repeat no vessel of this size would or could have non-functioning lifeboats.
    But the fact is that the vessel topplled over on one side... pretty soon half the lifeboats were underwater and thus those were pretty much useless..the rest which would require power to be easily launched...no power you're almost SOL .a mechanical (gravity) launch with the vessel on its side.... would not be super easy.

    c) Yes... lifeboat drills are pretty much useless most passengers take it as joke..pay little or not attention because they dont think they will need it.
     
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  10. tsastor
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    You are mostly right. However, the captains I know would indeed be the last ones to leave the ship. But then I don't know if all of these cruise line captains really are selected because of their seaman and leadership skills or if they are selected because of their entertainment value towards their guests. (sorry for being so mean)
     
  11. mtlfire

    mtlfire Gold Member

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    What are you sinking about? :D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOTpIVxji8
     
  12. IkeEsq

    IkeEsq Gold Member

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    Yeah, because you are the only person on the planet who has been on a big ship. So which is it, if they were 10 stories up they would probably notice the list but if they were not high enough up they would probably notice the water around their ankles?

    There is a very large difference between screaming "The Ship is Sinking" in a high-pitched voice full of panic and explaining that there has been an accident and people should calmly return to their rooms, collect their life jackets, and muster at their life boats. History is full of examples of calm, matter-of-fact directions during an emergency. The crash-landing in the Hudson and the landing in Sioux City jump to mind.

    According to people ON THE SHIP, this is not what happened. Feel free to read a first-hand account from someone on Cruise Critic http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1548951. If you would care to reply in that thread that the person obviously does not know what they are talking about because they do not have your level of training, experience, and expertise, feel free.

    Seems Costa has a slightly less rosy estimation of the Captain's performance: http://www.costacruises.co.uk/B2C/GB/Info/concordia_statement.htm (see fourth paragraph).

    As for the Captain being the last one off the ship, according to the Italian Prosecutor, under Italian law the Captain is supposed to be the last one off the ship. If you have some citation to disprove this, I'd be interested in seeing it, as I suspect would the Italian Prosecutor.

    According to first-hand reports, the Captain sailed the ship for upwards of TWO HOURS after striking the rocks before alerting authorities and ordering the evacuation. During those two hours, the lifeboats would most likely have worked fine as the ship was not yet listing so dangerously as to impede their function.

    First, lifeboat drills are for both crew and passengers. Second, lifeboat drills are not useless. If people at least once have gone to their muster stations then they have a far clearer idea where they are then if they have not been to them. At our office we do shelter-in-place and fire drills at least twice a year. I can assure you that I, and the vast majority of people in my building, know where we are supposed to go and what we are supposed to do.

    If you would like another example, check out http://news.yahoo.com/a-family-remembers--hero-of-9-11-gave-life-to-save-thousands.html, which recounts how doing evacuation drills in the past helped save the lives of thousands on 9/11/01.
     
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  13. Miles
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    The ship was quite close to the shore, much closer than seems reasonable.

    Photograph
     
  14. newbluesea
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    BasIcally I stated my opinion.. do I care if you agree?? :)

    I havent got the time and patience to argue when its pretty obvious that the extent your knowledge is limited to the obviously accurate "news accounts".... but please spare me your completely irrelevant examples.

    Thats about all I have to say besides saying mark my words there is going to be sometimes in future (hopefully distant) there is going a mega-cruise ship accident where the loss of lfe is going to be appalling (especially if there is a fire)
     
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  15. effseeoh

    effseeoh Gold Member

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  16. MSPeconomist
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    Cable news is reporting additional deaths, bringing the confirmed total up to 11. AFAIK no new names or nationalities have been released. Apparently there are at least two Americans among the missing, an elderly couple from the MSP suburbs for whom this was a trip of a lifetime after raising four children. There has been a lot of local news coverage here recently, more so than initially after the disaster.
     
  17. canucklehead
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    Such a tragedy - I recall a report that there were 29 passengers still unaccounted for.

    BBC has a transcript of the telephone conversation between the captain and the Coast Guard where they are ordering him to return to the ship and he refuses!

    Seems like from the grandstanding/showboating by getting too close to the shore, not notifying and ordering evacuation when he hit rocks to abandoning his ship before his passengers, this captain is unworthy of his position!
     
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  18. IkeEsq

    IkeEsq Gold Member

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    The more information that comes out, the worse the 'Captain' looks. Except to newbluesea, who apparently thinks the Captain is not responsible for navigation decisions or staying onboard to direct the evacuation. :rolleyes:

    Of those (10 of 25) identified as still missing, the couple from MSP are the only ones who fit the description of the latest casualties. I don't hold out much hope for additional survivors at this point. :(
     
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  19. MSPeconomist
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    Another recent report says that they are the only two missing Americans at this point.
     
  20. FlyingBear
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    It appears that there is an apologist in every discussion on the web. And each one of them chastises other for jumping to conclusions without all the information, while doing precisely the same.

    The "alleged" factoid that amazed me is that the captain ordered the ship to get closer to the island so that the main waiter could wave to his family. That makes "buzzing" that airplane pilots do a silly and safe prank in comparison.
     
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  21. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    I believe that picture reflects where the ship ended up that night, but not the exact place place where it originally hit the reef/rocks. There have been reports that the crew brought it closer to land after the accident to make rescue of the passengers easier. But who knows if that's really the case or just a story the captain is telling...

    This BBC article has a map that compares the path of the ship compared to the previous cruise a week earlier.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16576979
     
  22. mailbroad

    mailbroad Silver Member

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    :(:(:(
     
  23. Bay Pisco Shark
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    This afternoon on XM 70s on 7, they played "The Morning After" - coincidence? If not, probably a bad taste "too soon" programming decision. I haven't heard the song in ages.
     
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  24. kansaskeith

    kansaskeith Gold Member

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    Well, I got a news-and-marketing e-mail from A.A.R.P. tonight that, in fairness to that organization, I am sure had been in the works for some time. Anyway, it was entitled "5 Hidden Cruise Costs to Avoid." Yeah, "like funeral fees," I thought when I saw the subject line.
     
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  25. canucklehead
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    toooooo soooooon! toooooo sooooon!
     

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