Confused with Stopover / OpenJaw rules for upcoming trip US/Asia/Europe

Discussion in 'United Airlines | MileagePlus' started by Julien, Aug 3, 2013.  |  Print Topic

  1. Julien

    Julien Active Member

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    Hello
    I am trying to ticket the following itinerary but out of luck so far with various UA agents"
    >> CDG - NRT destination - CDG stopover - EWR
    Flights are a combinaison of NH and LH.
    Can you help me understanding if this is a valid trip; I see one openjaw and one stopover but may be wrong. Thanks for your help
     
  2. edekba

    edekba Gold Member

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    I dont think they'll let you do CDG - NRT - CDG - EWR but I could be wrong
     
  3. Hartmann
    Original Member

    Hartmann Gold Member

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    If CDG is your origin then returning back closes the roundtrip loop. You essentially have two one way trips with a stop at home in between.
     
  4. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    I think that it would be helpful to know the origin and final destination, as the trip could be interpreted a number of ways without that info.

    Do you live in CDG? What happens after EWR?
    If you live in CDG then I do not understand why you would throw in EWR, which, with the stopover, might as well be a separate one-way CDG-ERW trip.

    The way I read it is:
    CDG <-> NRT
    CDG -> EWR
    which might as well be booked separately.
    I see a round-trip (CDG<->NRT) and a one-way (CDG->EWR), which need to be booked separately.
     
  5. Julien

    Julien Active Member

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    Hello
    Thanks for all your responses. Let me try to clarify. I am living in NY but took a one-way to go to CDG. Home is NYC.
    Hence wanted to book a return trip with the following:
    - One way CDG - NRT
    - One way NRT - EWR with stopover in CDG
    It would save me a good amount of miles not having to take a R/T and then a one way.
    It seems the rules of United allow this but according to what I read from you it seems a no-go, right? It is weird I can do EWR - NRT - CDG (stopover) - NRT but not what I try to book. What are your thoughts?
     
  6. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    How does

    Europe - North Asia - Europe - North America

    get ticketed and what is the scenario under which you would save miles?
     
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  7. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    ...In addition, a stopover in a city that one departed from is called a round-trip ;):D. Therefore, CDG->NRT->CDG (stopver) is a roundtrip that you are attempting to treat as a one-way CDG->NRT->CDG (stopover)->EWR. That will not fly (pun indented) because it is not allowed...
    • A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted.
    ...and that is why the system is balking. EWR - CDG - NRT - CDG- (stopover) -EWR would work.

    Having said that, I have had some weird gymnastics work that likely violated that rule, but the rule violating was done by the UA 1K desk agent, who'd booked the award travel for me. You might wish to call UA CS to try to do it for you but my sense is that you will not save any miles...The miles will add linearly, a segment at a time.
     
  8. Julien

    Julien Active Member

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    Understood I hoped I could get the CDG-NRT in first class for 80k miles and NRT-CDG-EWR for 67.5k (surprisingly Europe-Japan is more expensive!). This is why I wanted to try.
    As it is indeed possible to do EWR - NRT (dest) - CDG (stopover) - EWR with 2x67.5k miles or "free domestic one way" using stopover/open jaw combination (e.g. EWR-CDG-EWR(stopover)-LAX is working as a "round trip"), I really thought this was possible.
    Thanks for the explanations! I'll just book separate tickets then
     
  9. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    It is possible to have the stopover at the point of origin; that's not what breaks this.

    My guess is that switching the zones for the open-jaw does, though that also can be possible in certain circumstances.
     
  10. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    If I understand the rule correctly, that is true provided that one would then complete the round-trip to the origin.
    • A->B->A (stopover), the stopover at origin is legit but meaningless because one is just back 'home'.
    • A->B->A(stopover at origin)-C-D-A, is legit; a closed loop.
    • A->B->A(stopover at origin)-C, this is the OP's situation and it is not legit because it is not a closed loop. In fact, there are two trips there: a round-trip and a one-way, which will be ticketed separately.
    The different 'zones' (regions) is also definitely a problem...
     
  11. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    It is possible to have the stopover at the origin and not book back to home. EWR-CDG-EWR-LAX is a viable award routing in that context and I know many have booked similar before.

    Different zones is not necessarily a problem. It is possible to book EWR-CDG-SJU and have that as a valid itinerary even though EWR and SJU are in different zones. It may be that not all zones can be paired together as an open jaw or that something else is amiss, but changing zones is not an immediate fail on the rules.

    The rules are not clearly defined. That can work in our favor in many cases but it also makes certain situations very challenging to figure out, either if they will work or why they don't. This is one such scenario.
     
  12. NYCUA1K

    NYCUA1K Gold Member

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    I would agree that the rules are not defined clearly, nor do they seem to be set in stone. It is for this reason that I always draft my usual year-end, multi-city redemption like the one below for my upcoming yearly Asian escapade, and then just get on the horn with the UA 1K desk to have them do the final booking. The agent who booked my even more complex redemption last year was very good in that she first searched to ensure availability of each segment and, then, because I had several stopovers (I counted at least 6 stopovers, since the idea was to see several cities, and a couple of potential open jaws, depending on interpretation), she said: now let's see how we can group the segments so that things would work out for you. She did this by grouping segments such that region crossing (N - SE Asia) was minimized, separating segments by carriers (CA, SQ, TG, UA), inserting my desired stopovers and appropriate open jaws, and finally ticketing the resulting groupings separately, with different PNRs. The goal was not to save miles; rather, it was to produce a legit redemption that could be ticketed, although I believe that it might have ended up saving me some miles... It took a while because it was, by far, my most complex redemption, but it also turned out to be one of my smoothest trips. I will see how the agent who will handle the one below will fare in comparison.:) The dashed lines are revenue segments, while I will redeem to fly the rest in C or F. I chose to pay for a direct PVG->MNL flight on MH, rather than redeeming, because I found only one available flight on SQ, which had to go through SIN, the SQ hub, thus making it a very long flight. The cost of Y on MH is around $225 and that of C under $500. I will pay for Y and then try to upgrade to C at the airport when I check in because few people in this region like to pay to fly in premium cabins, which consequently are usually empty, thereby decreasing the costs of last-minute upgrades. Another motivation is that if I flew in Y, the fee that I would pay for checking the large baggage that I usually take on these extended trips will be about the same as the cost for the upgrade to C, but the luggage fee would be waived. :)

    YE-ASIA-TRIP-2013.jpg
     

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