China could impound European planes

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Travel' started by uggboy, Jun 12, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. uggboy
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    uggboy Gold Member

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    || China could impound European planes ||

    Could this really be happen? This could impact passengers worldwide and even relations between countries!:confused:
     
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  2. viguera
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    viguera Gold Member

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    Ugh... I think it's grandstanding but you never know how far some countries will go to have their way.

    Emissions is a funny business all around. Car companies are made to comply by force, with government agencies basically not allowing your product to be sold to the consumer unless it meets a certain criteria. With planes is another story though... airlines are selling a service, not a product, so if China wants to retaliate they'll have to go after the airlines somehow.
     
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  3. LETTERBOY
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    LETTERBOY Gold Member

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    It's not too often I say this, but good for China. They shouldn't take this crap lying down. I hope (but doubt) that the US government will take steps like this as well. I remember how Europe complained about unilateralism when Bush was in office, but now unilateralism is OK if they're the ones doing it. :rolleyes::mad:
     
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  4. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    [quote="LETTERBOY, post: 1432507, member: 1582". I remember how Europe complained about unilateralism when Bush was in office, but now unilateralism is OK if they're the ones doing it. :rolleyes::mad:[/quote]

    Maybe they have simply learned that bilateralism doesn't work in this world anymore. See Kyoto. ;)

    If I understand it correctly, China and others are complaining that the EU dares to apply a fee based on the entire length of the flight, not just the part that's happening over EU territory. I guess I have a few thoughts on that: pollution doesn't stop at international boundaries. Lufthansa is presumably paying the same fee when flying FRA-PEK as Chinese airlines do. So does it impact them competitively? And there are other cases where a government entity "taxes" the entire transaction, not just the part that happens on their territory. Hertz adds an "Airport Concession Fee Recovery on Flight Arrivals" for car rentals at SFO. You might think, based on the name, that it's a flat fee for using the facity, but it isn't. It's $4.11 per rental day, even if you take the car and drive straight to Vegas. Oh, and also a California Tourism Commission Assessment of $1.13... per day no matter where you take your rental car.​
     
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  5. RestlessLocationSyndrome
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    RestlessLocationSyndrome Silver Member

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    Maybe they have simply learned that bilateralism doesn't work in this world anymore. See Kyoto. ;)

    If I understand it correctly, China and others are complaining that the EU dares to apply a fee based on the entire length of the flight, not just the part that's happening over EU territory. I guess I have a few thoughts on that: pollution doesn't stop at international boundaries. Lufthansa is presumably paying the same fee when flying FRA-PEK as Chinese airlines do. So does it impact them competitively? And there are other cases where a government entity "taxes" the entire transaction, not just the part that happens on their territory. Hertz adds an "Airport Concession Fee Recovery on Flight Arrivals" for car rentals at SFO. You might think, based on the name, that it's a flat fee for using the facity, but it isn't. It's $4.11 per rental day, even if you take the car and drive straight to Vegas. Oh, and also a California Tourism Commission Assessment of $1.13... per day no matter where you take your rental car.​
    [/quote]

    The main issue here isn't whether there is a tax or fee. The issue is around governance and who gets to decide whether there is a tax or fee. The EU Emission Trading Scheme is trying to govern international air space. This is probably the largest sticking point.

    In regards to Kyoto, I'm pretty sure there were a lot more parties who helped jointly develop and agreed to the Kyoto protocol than the EU ETS.
     
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  6. thegrailer
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    thegrailer Silver Member

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    So it's an EU tax hmmm. If I fly LH ORD-FRA there is a tax but if I fly LX ORD-ZRH there isn't one? How interesting. ZRH - the new super hub for flights to and from China ;) [Maybe OSL instead?]
     
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  7. autolycus

    autolycus Gold Member

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    This reminds me of an incident not that long ago that had China on the other side of something similar. North Korea had started to hold Chinese freight trains hostage because they needed the rolling stock as their own stock was breaking down. They also started trying to demand that China provide additional aid to NK in exchange for giving the trains back to the Chinese. Any guess what the Chinese response was? They stopped providing all aid to NK until NK returned the trains. I wonder if the Chinese aren't going to see similar responses if they try this stunt. The EU will put a full embargo against China immediately. The US will probably back the EU but not start any form of sanction. It'd be a disaster for China, no matter what the merit of their complaints about the taxes.
     
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  8. RestlessLocationSyndrome
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    RestlessLocationSyndrome Silver Member

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    You really think the US will get involved in this? You realize that the EU is threatening to impound Chinese airplanes and China is basically threatening to do the same back. This clearly an eye for an eye... the US is smart enough to stay out. Let's not forget that both the US and EU borrow a considerable amount from China.
     
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  9. autolycus

    autolycus Gold Member

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    We've also got all kinds of little trade wars going on with specific Chinese industries, just like we did/do with the Japanese.

    IMO, and based on a very crude understanding of the tax, the whole thing shouldn't be happening in the first place because there wouldn't be any such attempt to tax flights like this, but international relations are a unique game.
     
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  10. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    I thought that was Dubai?
     
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  11. LETTERBOY
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    The US won't get involved if China and the EU start impounding each other's planes (although as I said above, I wish they would impound EU planes if they don't drop this), but they're very much opposed to this tax as well. They won't say anything publicly, most likely, but they'll be pulling for China behind the scenes.
     
  12. thegrailer
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    thegrailer Silver Member

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    But who has the better rosti?
     

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