Boeing Just Made Its Biggest Sale Ever To An Airline You Have Never Heard Of

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Travel' started by sobore, Feb 17, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. sobore
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  2. kw335
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    I think calling JT an airline that "you've never heard of" is quite a hyperbole. If I remember correctly, they were the launch customer of the 737-900. Though how they are going to pay for these birds, I'm not sure!
     
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  3. Jaimito Cartero
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    Unknown? Maybe to them. I've heard of them, and have even flown them.

    I'm not totally sure that JT will ever get all of these planes, though. It's very much an emerging market in Indonesia, and a few of JT's pilots have been nailed for using Meth in the last year, so that certainly undermines the publics confidence in the airline.
     
  4. HaveMilesWillTravel
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  5. Lufthansa Flyer
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    They isn't always the size of the contract, its the ability to honor it. Hopefully Boeing can realize the full value of the contract! Too many times you see large orders get broken apart by deferrals, etc.....
     
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  6. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    Makes me wonder how the incentive compensation works at Boeing/Airbus. Do the executives get paid based on the number of planes they "sell" or the number of planes that get actually shipped five to ten years down the road?
     
  7. uggboy
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    Have already heard of Lion Air!
     
  8. Lufthansa Flyer
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    A plan that defers some compensation would make sense. It would be easy to put together a big "fake" order, cash in, and then have Boeing not have any recapture ability if the sale sours.....
     
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  9. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    Sounds like the financial/mortgage industry, doesn't it? It would have made sense there, too :)
     
  10. sobore
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    I think the thread title should be:
    Boeing Just Made Its Biggest Sale Ever To An Airline You Have Never Heard Of unless you're an MPer!

    Nobody is going to stump this community with an unknow airline!:)
     
  11. msny

    msny Gold Member

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  12. Gaucho
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    I know the Indonesian Economy very well..... many Indonesian Business Tycoons have a reputation when it comes to taking on debt, and another (very different one) when it comes to paying, refinancing, etc. etc.

    I sincerely hope that the US Eximbank does its homework.... and Boeing also needs to make sure it keeps this on a tight leash.... else, this deal will make headlines for the very very wrong reasons.... one of the things that is key here is that Lion is mostly a domestic airline.... if these planes dont get paid, you need to seize them, but if they are used mainly for domestic routes, I wonder how Boeing and the US Bank(s) will get them... perhaps send over a Navy Seals Team....
     
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  13. kyunbit
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    This title of the news perplexes me. Anybody interested enough in Boeing news should know about Lion Air! Other wont read it
     
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  14. ohianjo
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    or
    Boeing Just Made Its Biggest Sale Ever To An Airline You Have Never Heard Of unless you live in the Asia Pacific Region!
     
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  15. General_Flyer
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    Or you just happen to be Indonesian.. :p
     
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  16. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    That would be an option :)

    Where do those planes go for maintenance?
     
  17. Jaimito Cartero
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    I'm pretty sure that Boeing won't be on the hook for anything. And I'm sure that anyone loaning them money will make sure that they don't just ship them 100 planes without any money up front.

    The Indonesian market is really expanding. With Air Asia and Lion Air very active in the LCC sector. Garuda seems to be expanding, plus some pretty cheap international options like Tiger Airways and Jetstar have good pricing and options. I wouldn't use a LCC in the US, but don't mind in Asia one bit. In fact, I like Air Asia service better than most US domestic coach flights.
     
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  18. Gaucho
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    Good point on maintenance.... do these birds have range to fly from Indonesia to China...? If so, then LH Technik has a huge JV with the Chinese that do aircraft maintenance in various locations throughout China. That would be one option... although if these birds will do mostly domestic flights, then I assume that they could get local maintenance and not be certified to fly internationally...... wonder if they bring expat aeronautical engineers and work on them in Indonesia, if this would be doable or not I have no idea.
     
  19. jbcarioca
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    I would not try to argue Indonesian finance with Gaucho even if I wanted to. In this case I certainly do not want to. There has yet to be along-term-successful Indonesian airline. There have almost always been serious safety and security concerns. Lion has not been an exception, as:
    Jaimito Cartero pithily observes.

    Further, Lion is banned from the EU and was refused membership in IATA because of safety problems.

    In any event the funding for the Kirana brothers is shrouded in mystery, although they insist it is 100% self-funded.

    This article helps explain some context:
    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/kiranas-lion-appetite-for-success-209106/
     
  20. SirRagnar
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  21. MSPeconomist
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    I would guess based on sales, just as bankers get bonuses based on (conforming) mortgages they write, not their regular repayments.
     
  22. MSPeconomist
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    There's airplane maintenance in Singapore but AFAIK for Airbus. PMNW sent A330s there for work.
     
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  23. jbcarioca
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    Further, with NG's being sold by the thousands there will be maintenance in SIN or somewhere near before too many of these are flying around SEA. I imagine none of us really doubt that.
     
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  24. MSPeconomist
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    OTOH, maintenance in Singapore could be too expensive when China also offers maintenance facilities in the region. Lion flies already to HK and CAN, so it should be pretty easy to rotate planes to CAN for maintenance in China.
     
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  25. jbcarioca
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    Logistically that is why I see no major maintenance scheduling issues. there are several plausible options, aren't there?
     

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