BA better? No longer competing with DL for reviled distinction of *Best In Class*?

Discussion in 'British Airways | Executive Club' started by redtailshark, Apr 30, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. redtailshark

    redtailshark Silver Member

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    I've used my Aviossss several times recently. And I'm actually going to fly BA this summer, a little anyway.

    The new BA.COM site works, most of the time. I've booked several Avios tickets, astonishingly, without it choking on me. It actually ticketed as advertised and requested for five separate itineraries. This is better than DL.COM can manage. One of these included a "layover" at LHR. Whoa!

    My WTP redemption ex-EU costs a few $ in "YQ" and "DilbertFund (sm)" but overall, the impact is about the same as DL would charge for a westbound TATL redemption with their hated IOS.
    One downside: BA, please advise that Avios part-payment cannot be used on partner airlines. My attempts to redeem from BOG to SMR were confounded by this, until I called it in and was told why. At least, present this advice on the website. I'm sure the GGL apologists know all this, but bear in mind, I'm not familiar enough with EC (Avios) to know the rules inside out.

    I want to see the Dilbertians in their lair at LHR, yes, the apologists and cultural condescenders at work in their natural environment at the Terraces. I don't mean the Nigels and Nigellas from Waterworld, because they aren't quite as Dilbertian as they used to be.

    I mean, the old-school club members harrumphing about Johnny Foreigner and the effrontery of the Shark and excusing the inexcusable occurring below them at the gate, of mass downgrades from confirmed to standby etc. You know who you are.

    And, before we get carried away, let's keep this in proportion. Even with these improvements, BA is far from the world's greatest airline and can learn a lot about high quality CS from others. Like US. Really. But BA Avios at least cannot fairly be described as:

    [​IMG]BEST IN CLASS[​IMG]

    Only one airline's program stands alone in this respect. Perhaps it is the D(i)LLLLLL(bertian) one.

    [Tx David for posting those stars in the DL forum - I simply copied them here :p ]
     
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  2. Prospero
    Original Member

    Prospero Silver Member

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    Great scot! A MilePoint scoop!

    Man books EC redemption...

    End of mini adventure :)
     
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  3. eponymous_coward
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    eponymous_coward Gold Member

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    I used 15,000 Avios miles + $44.80 to book HKG-BKK one-way in J, with a planned trip to the Cabin before departure. (OK, it's CX regional J, no great shakes, unless I luck into an equipment sub... which makes it about equal to AA/UA transcon J/C going from California to NYC) Booked the ticket on BA.com without a hitch.

    The same ticket in TG C would be 17,500 UA miles + $22 or so. (The same ticket in TG Y would be 12,500 miles + $22.80)- and intra-South Asia C is one of the value regions on UA's chart. ;)

    Avios do represent good value, even under the new scheme; it's just you have to use them correctly to maximize their value. 25K gets you Y r/t to Hawaii from the West Coast on AA or AS. 15K gets you SEA-JNU-SEA in AS Y. There are oodles of Caribbean destinations that would cost 9K roundtrip in Y from MIA. If you're not hung up on trying to fly in F to LHR for 5 euros cash outlay you'll find they work well for a lot of things.

    And there's still a MR promo bonus of 50% for transferring to BA right now (plus some hotel point bonuses). Works for me.
     
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  4. milestoburn
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    milestoburn Gold Member

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    now if only BA charged the level of taxes that you pay on JAL domestic flights with BA miles. 0.97 cents for my child's ticket...2 bucks for my own.... TOTAL. given the free loader i am about miles...pretty much was Free. i could sell an awful lot of these domestic redemptions....err, i mean, book lots of tickets for my own family trips...
     
  5. EZEIZA
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    EZEIZA Silver Member

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    A MilePoint poop!

    Surely I'm not the only one who hasn't got a clue what he's on about?
     
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  6. redtailshark

    redtailshark Silver Member

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    You're the only one... the history and context is well known to many, but in case here are some informative links:

    http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...-management-need-read-crew-comments-here.html

    Even I have to laugh, this was great:

    "I differ with your view on whether the kind of management I criticize can a. be found in the portals of Speedbird House and b. is symptomatic of a larger cultural malaise. I say, yes to both. My statements are naturally objectionable to apologists but the reality is, I have evidence and I'm not even the one making the original points. I simply do the unspeakable (on this board) and connect them in the case of BA and their profound incompetence."

    A little has changed (apologists/FT censors worse; more defensive, intolerant, ostrich-like; but BA mgmnt and Avios slightly better, no longer * best in class*) but on balance, there's plenty of life left in the critique.

    http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...ate-dilberts-thats-why-company-crumbling.html
     
  7. David
    Original Member

    David Silver Member

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    No they are not. Plenty of us don't have a clue what you are on about!

    But lets be clear what we mean when we say that:

    Nobody has any issue with you thinking BA has bad management, bad policies, bad what ever you like. No issue at all.

    [Personally I've been very critical of three very badly made decisions (IMO) by BA in the last year. And I've pulled no punches when criticising them over thouse decisions.]

    What we do have issue with is firstly this non-stop 'Dilbertian' business in the posts. It completely gets in the way of any point being made!

    Secondly, what also seems to get in the way of any points is how everything is constantly being related back to some grand point or general position. Indeed, having said we have no issue with anti BA management (etc) positions and or logical crtiques, we do take issue with some of the things you said.

    Just from the first post of yours that you linked to: "Classic British intolerance of dissent"
    - erm what?
    What do you base this on?

    I think Britain is jolly good as dissent, and doing it in logically pure manner - hence the abilty of large sections of the populace to be both against war in Iraq and also wishing 100% saftey to the troops. People understood you could be againts the war yet wish personal sucess to the troops. The public understood it, the media generally understood it, the govt understood it, the troops understood it.

    Yet, I can tell you of loads of conversations with Americans who did not, and any criticism of the venture or president was seen as a criticism or lack of support for the troops and/or an attack on the US.
    From this, it could be logical to suggest large numbers of Americans are intelectually underdeveloped and not capable of understanding complex posiitons and arguments. I'm not advocating that PoV (I'd argue 'under-informed').

    Now I don't want to debate Iraq, dissent, UK vs US or anything like that here, but do you see how it is off topic for BA?

    Therefore, please, lets stay close to the subject matter under discussion in the threads, and not have grand theories and fundamental view points getting in the way of things. Mention things in passing if you want to by all means, but not as the answer.

    [And please stop with the Dilbert bit, is just gets in the way of clarity.]
     
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  8. redtailshark

    redtailshark Silver Member

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    This is most interesting. The tenor of this discussion repeats earlier debates on FT, prior to censorship.

    Let's stay close to the thread topic, yes. And the subject matter under discussion is how BA compares with DL - after all, look at the title. This thread was started by me. This clearly implicates both BA's Dilbertian ideology and DL's *best in class* ideology.

    As for your injunctions, requests, pleas, to control the content of my posting, but why? I'm curious about why you want to police what I say, and how I say it. You take the position that you have authority to shape my posts, or that it's desirable for me to present certain views, in certain ways. This represents classic British cultural intolerance of dissent.

    I don't presume to tell you how to post, what's "appropriate" or not. That's the bullseye.

    This is a position that's quite typical of British people. Probably not surprising for a BA board, even over here.

    Next, another factor I have called out in the past as characteristic of Brit ideologues and BA apologists was the knee-jerk response of comparing American institutions negatively with British ones. This is particularly ironic here in light of the fact I've just negatively compared DL with BA. Both are bad, but now only DL is best in class. BA is just Dilbertian.

    I know this classic recoiling. Because it assaults the orthodoxy for someone - especially an EU national - to present the view that some American institutions are superior to the equivalent Old World ones.

    As for Dilbert, surely nothing is clearer or more consistent than my position on BA and its Dilbertian corporate philosophy. It's not as if I've changed my position since 2006 (nor even 1996, before I was on FT).

    I've long argued that grand theories of British culture provide a significant measure of explanation for BA's corporate policies and historical failings, especially their customer-service related failings. Which as you acknowledge, have been numerous and in many cases, severe. It's impossible to understand why BA persisted in corporate ostrich habits, and in openly contradicting its own claims to want to deliver better CS, without understanding the organizational cultural predispositions. This is complex and involves many factors including the selection and training of the Nigels and Nigellas, promotion criteria, condescension for the plebes onboard, etc.

    If you want more details on what "Dilbertian" means, there's lots more in the archive. You can just search it using key words.
     
  9. David
    Original Member

    David Silver Member

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    Indeed this thread was started by you. And to discuss BA vs DL. [Which I'd love to hear more detail about.]

    But since others had already commented on this thread regarding understanding your post/points, it seemed appropriate to rasie the issue here.

    - You had a point you appeared to want to get across in this thread, and a barrier was being hit understanding/engaging with it.

    I don't want to police or control what you say. I'm asking you to post things differnetly so it is easier for some of us to agree/disagree, interact or simply understand them. [And I've not sought to make any 'injunction' - it really doesn't belong in your list.]

    I do no such thing.
    I suggested and asked.

    No not intollerance of dissent (I don't see how you can support that based upon what I have posted).

    You were correct with 'desirable' - I asked you because :
    (i) I think it gets in the way of people understanding your point, and removes clarity and impact from your posts,
    (ii) I think it is killing this seciton of MP

    I've not told you to stop dissenting.
    In fact, I've told you how to be more effective!

    Bullseye? No.

    You appear to be looking to express a point here. Others have posted they don't understand your post(s) - and I know a few people have said that.

    Personally, in some circumstances and to some extents I agree with some of your points or aspects of them (to the extent that I understnad them).

    I said I thought your posts would achive more, and MP would be better if you posted them in a different way.

    Do you mean: Trying to aviod just stamping on the ground when making points? and instead looking for the best way to achive / express something?

    Dilbert can be a brilliant illustration of many things, either as a general concept or a speicifc cartoon.

    I've dealt with many a situaiton that has reminded me exactly of a Dilbert cartoon.

    However permeating references and making word substitutions throughout the post doesn't help the analogy or the clarity IMO.

    Oh, it is is easy to find. Don't worry.
     
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