Another cockpit photo incident during CX flight from Dubai to Hong Kong

Discussion in 'Cathay Pacific | Asia Miles/Marco Polo Club' started by JALPak, Oct 16, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. JALPak
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    JALPak Gold Member

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    http://the-sun.on.cc/cnt/news/20111017/00407_043.html

    This happened in Aug during a flight from Dubai to Hong Kong. The photographer contacted the medium and claims that CX pilots have less and less time to sleep due to their busy roster and he won't let his relatives to fly on CX night time flights.

    CX stresses the pilot is just resting as allowed by their policies. They will start an internal investigation because the CX staff who took the photo didn't get the consent of the pilot before taking picture and this violates their policies.

    I hope it wasn't the other pilot in the co-pilot seat who took the picture as they should be "flying" the plane even when it's under auto-pilot. Even if it's the co-pilot who took the picture, I question his judgment as he allowed someone to do that.
     
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  2. RestlessLocationSyndrome
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    I can't read the article (being that it is not in English) but based on when and where the photo was taken, it seems like a disgruntled CX pilot who is unhappy with the working conditions of having a busy flight schedule / roster. I think if flight safety was truly in question, there are other more effective ways of bringing corporate policy to the attention of the media/press (copy of corporate policy or emails eluding to unsafe behavior).

    Does a pilot/ex-pilot out there have any insight as to whether this is normal practice and allowed policy by other airlines?
     
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  3. Jimgotkp
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    Why do I feel like cameras will be banned along with cellphones on CX flights soon...
     
  4. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    Can't be real, the pilot isn't wearing a sweater (the last time it was explained this was common practice during flights) :)
     
  5. JALPak
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    well this time the pilot isn't a westerner :p Maybe this one likes his uniform. By the way according to Apple Daily, CX confirms this is their pilot and their staff are not allowed to take photos when they are on duty
     
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  6. joesmoe
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    Isn't there a pilot rest area? Of at least a crew rest area the pilot could hav used?
     
  7. Gaucho
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    I thought this was another FA doing something "interesting" to a pilot.....

    :eek:
     
  8. Pharaoh
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    In some countries it is quite permissible for pilots to take power naps for a few minutes. This is not permitted by the FAA, I don't know if it's permitted by China.
     
  9. boxedlunch
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    Napping in the cockpit is not so unusual for aircrew. Yes, the FAA doesn't like it. If given the choice of being less or more alert during critical phases of flight, I'd take the latter every time. One alert pilot, an FMS, and autopilot are more than sufficient to safely manage an aircraft during those long/boring segments across multiple time zones. It's still important to have 2 pilots up front however, just in case...
     
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  10. JALPak
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    but the question is what was the other pilot doing when this picture was taken. I hope s/he's not the one who took this as this means no one was paying attention to the equipments during that time.
     
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  11. tommy777
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    I'm not familiar with Cathay's policies, but I've never heard of pilots napping is something that's allowed.

    There's a reason why there are 3 pilots on long haul flights and pilot rest areas.

    The pilots are responsible for ensuring that the aircraft is fully functional and safe during all stages of flight, including cruise.
     
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  12. NYBanker
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    He looks comfortable at least!
     
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  13. JALPak
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    apparently CX says this is an industry standard and they have 4 not 3 pilots on longhaul flights too. And the ex-HKCAD head confirmed this is a common practice too.
     
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  14. General_Flyer
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    Looks like its on an airbus aircraft.. Interesting..

    I can vouch for that.. There's a picture that I took of CX's Entire 744 Crew, and there was 4 pilots present on SFO-HKG leg. Yet I only saw 3 on HKG-LAX flight..
     
  15. JALPak
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    looks like it...there's no yoke only joystick :p

    i hope your picture was taken after the flight :p Between how did you do manage to do that? Just ask nicely if they could take a picture with you after the flight?
     
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  16. General_Flyer
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    It was taken after we landed in HKG of course! :D

    How to manage it? Well I usually give a big box of chocolate to the FAs and at one point I also told the FA that it was my first time flying F on CX. The ISM was really friendly and she was proactive! So before take-off, I pulled her aside and asked her if I can take a picture with the entire cabin crew..

    I chatted with the FAs and the ISM on some occasions during the flight (Which lead to 1 rollaboard full of goodies!) and by the time we landed and everyone deboarded, the ISM pulled everyone on the PA and told them there's a pax asking for a picture.. She was just very nice!

    One rule of thumb however, on trips to the US, the air crew are very strict regarding regulations and so on. But when returning to their home base, they're very lax on things.

    Here are the pictures:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Was too bad I can't get them all in the shots, but nevertheless.. It was awesome that the crew consented to my requests.. :)
     
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  17. JALPak
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    Nice! One of the pilots wasn't that happy in the last picture lol Personally I would want to visit the cockpit after the flight but with all these cockpit photo incidents, CX might get a bit stricter from any kind of "cockpit" photo taking from now on :p
     
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  18. General_Flyer
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    Yes indeed.. That could certainly be a problem. But if it was pax, I think they would treat it very differently than their own employee. Hopefully you'll be able to slide in and take a pic.. :D

    On the pilot, I think he just felt left out of the pic... :p
     
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  19. boxedlunch
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    I suppose I'm speaking from my operator's policies which allow for what we call "Controlled Cockpit Rest" (I don't fly Part 121). As long as the other pilot is fully qualified, we can nap for up to 45-min to combat fatigue. This option does not replace extra crew members on long flights, nor does it dismiss common sense. Though it's best to get proper sleep before taking a jet into the air, sometimes circumstances can be less than ideal. In my aircraft, cockpit rest is used as a last-resort when other measures failed.

    Here's an ALPA/APA response to FAA/NASA fatigue proposals during the early '90s. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/committees/arac/media/aco/ACO_CR_T1.pdf
    I agree with some of their objections, especially re: deficiencies with uncontrolled napping by the alert pilot. However, it's my opinion that the unions threw the baby out with the bathwater in their attempt to leverage proposals for improved work limitations/crew rest requirements. Shortcomings in the research don't necessarily make the idea worthless in principle.

    Here's an article on a Go! Airlines sleep incident at Hilo, HI with a short summary on NASA's fatigue research for the FAA. http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/2009/01/06/pilot-fatigue/
     
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