And the winner in the category "Best US Airline Rewards Program" is...

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Miles/Points' started by HaveMilesWillTravel, Apr 28, 2015.  |  Print Topic

  1. HaveMilesWillTravel
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  2. MSPeconomist
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    For a minute I thought the Freddies got scooped.
     
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  3. Newscience

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  4. mattsteg
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    Delta second!
     
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  5. newbluesea
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    That alone just blows the credibility of this and any such surveys out of the water.:rolleyes:
     
  6. Counsellor
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    Maybe. But:
    maybe it just means folks are holding onto AA miles as being more valuable, and burning UA and DL accumulations.
     
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  7. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    "Many JetBlue customers fly the airline only once or twice per year, making it hard to accumulate miles, an airline spokesman told the magazine. "

    And that's unique to JetBlue and its customers? I know a ton of people who fly a given airline (or even in aggregate all airlines) once or twice a year.
     
  8. eponymous_coward
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    Is ease of use not a legitimate category to evaluate reward programs on?

    WN gets beat up a lot in these parts. It's bogus. For many people, being able to fly domestically and redeem points for it easily ticks the box. The reality is that the caviar and Krug porn laden trip reports peddled by bloggers and powered by manufactured spend isn't a realistic goal for a lot of people.

    It's surprising to see DL ahead of AA/UA here... but hey, maybe it's time to be surprised?

    Or maybe it just means that AA has crappy redemption options, given that a lot of the award tickets will cost you a lot of YQ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  9. newbluesea
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    My response which you appeared to have missed was relative to DL ( I have no idea or interest for that matter what happens with the SWA program I haven't flown them in over 20 years... so no need for the snobbish hyperbole :)) ... now back to my point could you possibly think "ease of use" is at all synonymous to the DL program?
    A program which in one of their more member-friendly moves removed even their award charts from their website?
     
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  10. eponymous_coward
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    OK, so how is it that people are redeeming more tickets on DL than UA or AA, if it's impossible to use miles there?

    I'm not a big fan of "well, the data doesn't fit a preconceived notion, therefore I reject the data".

    It's quite possible this is bogus. It's possible it's a bad survey. But turning up our nose at how most of the universe redeems miles because we decide we're going to Bali in F for the weekend, and therefore we can best judge value... I'm not sure that's all that great either.

    (A good case example is US; horrible program for newbs, GREAT program to extract value out of if you knew what you were doing and were willing to get into the FF arcana and weeds. US would get regularly ripped as a horrible program in these sorts of surveys. And it legitimately was for a lot people... high junk fees, low own-metal availability.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  11. Wandering Aramean
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  12. mattsteg
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    It is, but not the only one. Any survey set up to claim one program "best", (especially based on a total of 25 routes!) is bogus. And it's not really ease of use that's ranked, it's how much people redeemed on the 25 chosen routes. And listing the "average" mile cost as the average of the top and bottom of the award chart? That's just a wild guess and a lie to represent it that way.
    I strongly dislike WN. I don't like the product, or the rewards scheme. But within the narrow range of this study, if anything WN may have gotten the short end of the stick(you can do better than the study indicates)...or may be looking better than they should (a lot of legacy miles go toward international and partner awards that aren't included, depressing their award percentage that the study is so interested in)

    The study is people who don't understand the topic pulling up some numbers, making up others, and selling the package to a gullible public. And then you get a reporter who doesn't understand the topic reporting and reinterpreting a deeply flawed study in a flawed way...and you end up with a lot of nonsense.

    Of course not - at the end of the day anyone proclaiming a given FF program to be the best (or worst...) is at a minimum overreaching. Everything is situational!

    There are enough obvious flaws in the study that it's tough to draw many conclusions, but the higher satisfaction rating is interesting (3rd, not 2nd like the article says, though. Delta was only 2nd in award seat count...which could easily be due to having more seats flying those 25 routes.)

    I'm guessing jetblue people are happy because they like the airline and program. They're probably point to point flyers redeeming more on leisure routes (thus the lower percentages on the 25 chosen).. Or maybe not. We're left guessing.

    Those "crappy options" you speak of would be for international awards which are ignored here. International awards eat up a lot of miles (so fewer left to spend on these routes, unless they happen to be a connection to a gateway). If anything, unless you think AA miles are just piling up left and right (which given the recent promotions they might be...) the lower numbers of AA awards say 2 things:
    1) during the reporting period, AA was a lot smaller than e.g. Delta (these aren't merged numbers...)
    2) maybe people are spending their AA miles on other awards? Maybe they're hoarding? Maybe they can't spend them? Who knows?

    It's a crap study that arrives at an educated guess of a few numbers, and then draws a whole bunch of non sequitur conclusions from that one piece of analysis. And then adds an undefined "satisfaction score"


    It's just a garbage study.
     
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  13. newbluesea
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    I am not inclined to debate some of the points made above but back to the famous " ease of use"

    But here's a few things that some here seem to be quite oblivious to.
    a) DL has not allowed conversion of their miles into hotel program points for what 15 years now?
    b) It appears there is quite a bit of lack of knowledge with regard to YQ charges in these parts.
    Shocker alert... AA does not charge YQ on any of their AA metal redemptions DL???? oh dear...oh dear.. oh dear
    c) Name me one ..one single, solitary one.AA (or OW) partner that F awards cannot be redeemed with AA miles:).
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
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  14. Wandering Aramean
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    Yup.
     
  15. mattsteg
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    Reading MSM articles about subjects that I am knowledgeable about absolutely terrifies me. It rarely builds trust in what they publish.
     
  16. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    But my thread about it doubled the post traffic on MP, so there's something positive to say about it :)

    (I have to admit I hadn't actually read the article)
     
  17. newbluesea
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    Did you get those traffic results from the same survey company?:D
     
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  18. mattsteg
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    Honestly, the company that *generated the real data* seems reasonably legit. Best I can tell they estimated award ticket count based on number of 0 or very low fares. I expect a bunch of Delta's 2013 "christmas day sale" tickets may have been reported as awards, as well as some other promotional or just cheap fares. They took a 10% sample of the markets chosen, and set the threshold of ticket prices under 25 bucks and counted those as awards. So mistakes get thrown in, as well as really cheap fares, reporting glitches, etc. But a reasonable estimate. And they probably got the average one way fares there too.

    As far as processing the data beyond that, it *appears* that CR did the analysis - which basically means they just started making up things at that point. The miles required are an uninformed guess, so thus they and anything derived from them are garbage. And the satisfaction score may be by airline or by ff program - it's unclear. And then they bounce back and forth between reporting percentages and raw numbers (which having more traffic on the route would of course boost...which may or may not matter)

    Short version - the data seems legit, but completely misinterpreted by people that do not know what they are doing.
     
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  19. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    Pretty much. But find me a non-chat thread that triggered 17+ replies in less than 24 hours recently. Admittedly, mine haven't actually been furthering the discussion. :)
     
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  20. Newscience

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    The traffic on MP has been so thin in recent months, that any posting is bound to attract interest.
     
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  21. Newscience

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    Perhaps this should be reported to Bloomberg, as their article is bogus? :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015
  22. redtailshark

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    Yeah, what this means is that the survey is - just like the ostensible second-placed program -

    [​IMG]mejor en su clase[​IMG]
     
  23. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    Well, as someone who is rarely in the middle seat, and as someone who grants the middle seat person first dibs on the arm rests, I would argue it does give me more "butt room". Fortunately I don't actually need it; I am often enough in the bulkheads that don't have movable armrests and even less "butt space" than the regular coach seats. So it's not really a factor in my aircraft and airline selection.

    But yes, the marketers at work again....
     
  24. mattsteg
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    Unless the aisles shrink (and it would kind of suck if they did) seats do not magically get wider in any meaningful way. Shoulder room, arm room, etc can'can't change. Buttpad width is immaterial (and if narrower means a wider armrest then narrower is better. Wide armrests are comfier and even sharable.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  25. Newscience

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    This is funny. According to the feedback in this post, this survey is "bogus", "flawed", "garbage", etc., etc. But then, every air carrier survey reported on MP is similarly "bogus", "flawed", "garbage", etc., etc. How about the Freddies? Are they also "bogus", "flawed", "garbage", etc., etc.?
     

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