American citizen world traveller living in hotels 365/year --- turned down for credit

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Credit Cards' started by sarah.telaviv, Feb 5, 2014.  |  Print Topic

  1. sarah.telaviv

    sarah.telaviv Active Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    14
    Status Points:
    80
    I have many credit cards, but one specific bank, where I have already gotten credit cards from 2 years ago, offered me one of the great deals now last Tuesday evening ----a CT told me I was approved with a good credit limit! and the next day the bank emailed me that I was not approved and needed to substantiate my commercial address with a utility bill. Then when I spoke to a rep about this impossibility, she told me to send a letter from the manager of the hotel that I am a long term guest here in this property when I am in the states. I did that immediately, called back the same evening, and was again told that this was not sufficient, that I needed a utility bill. Spoke to a supervisor, and I got nowhere me but agitated. Then I sent a letter to the bank's CEO via email, and after two emails, a CR called me back and said she would take care of the problem and call me back that evening. She never did, and after 3 days passed I procured her phone number from contacting another department in the bank, and called her back in addition to sending another email. She finally called me back and reiterated the same thing that the CRs had said--- no credit card without a utility bill to justify my address. My credit is exceptional, I have many credit cards from banks, but I don't like being made to feel like I am not a citizen because I don't fit the old "mold" of renting or owning a property here in the states. This is a new global world, and since I travel abroad so much, I do not want to be burdened with a place I have to worry about back in the states and I have been fortunate to make this work ( a blog should be coming in the near future ) as a former manager and very intelligent person who stretches the dollar with the help of points and miles! Advice?
     
    Counsellor, uggboy, SC Flier and 2 others like this.
  2. marcwint55

    marcwint55 Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,517
    Likes Received:
    4,573
    Status Points:
    2,570

    Find a friend who will let you use his or her address and put a utility bill in your name for a couple of months. That should take care of the problem. You can then change your address to that of the hotel after you have the card.
     
  3. MX

    MX Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    4,805
    Status Points:
    2,545
    My advice would be to accept the rejection gracefully and with understanding. You are indeed a higher risk borrower due to your global status and lack of a stable address. If you're seriously interested in doing business with that particular lender, you can always try again later. But if you act unreasonably now (hint hint), you'll likely burn your bridges for good. You've already attracted enough negative attention to yourself -- so at this point I would not recommend getting a utility bill through deception.
     
  4. uggboy
    Original Member

    uggboy Gold Member

    Messages:
    50,181
    Likes Received:
    133,438
    Status Points:
    20,020
    Sounds more like "make believe inconvenience as brought forward by the lender", I don't think the poster has brought negative attention to him / herself, it's played up by the lender which could land the poster unreasonably in hot water for not "molding" well into an existing system.
     
    marcwint55 and Gargoyle like this.
  5. Gargoyle
    Original Member

    Gargoyle Milepoint Guide

    Messages:
    22,015
    Likes Received:
    96,543
    Status Points:
    20,020
    I'd agree. Organizations like to hire efficiency experts to craft simplistic templates. Then they can plug everyone into a template, and be able to analyze, quantify, and determine metrics. That also minimizes human error, since the employees just follow a tight script. However, some of us just don't fit the norm; cheaper and easier to fire a client than to give autonomy in decision making to mid level employees.
     
    B1BomberVB, anileze, WilliamQ and 4 others like this.
  6. MX

    MX Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    4,805
    Status Points:
    2,545
    No, I did not imply that the OP might get into 'hot water' for getting agitated with credit analysts, bothering the CEO over a CC rejection, or claiming a CC entitlement based on citizenship. It just put her on the bank's radar. With that in mind, I would now definitely not try to produce a fake proof of address, as had been suggested earlier.
    Perhaps you might have another advice for the OP.
     
  7. sarah.telaviv

    sarah.telaviv Active Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    14
    Status Points:
    80
    I do not want to be deceptive nor would I infringe upon a friend to change this all around and say I am living with them when I am not and then put a utility bill in my name and cancel. That is deceptive and could get my friend in trouble and I would not ask such things. I am simply pointing out that the template, as mentioned above, needs to be expanded and looked at, because the lifestyles of people, now with technology and travel available to them, provides a vast amount of increased opportunities to see the world and have living arrangements other than an apartment or own a home. I see no difference in renting for 3 months and living in a hotel for 3 months, when you have a record of good credit..
     
  8. uggboy
    Original Member

    uggboy Gold Member

    Messages:
    50,181
    Likes Received:
    133,438
    Status Points:
    20,020
    Well done.
     
    anileze, MX and Gargoyle like this.
  9. LETTERBOY
    Original Member

    LETTERBOY Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    2,522
    Status Points:
    1,425
    Well, the bank (apparently) looks at people who do that as being unstable. They look at it as, "This person is changing addresses every few months. What's wrong there?" The majority of the bank's customers are likely NOT living the kind of lifestyle you are, so that makes you an outlier. Of all their customers, how many are doing what you do? Probably not all that many. They're not going to change their template because of a group of people who likely comprise a small proportion of their overall customer base.
     
  10. iolaire
    Original Member

    iolaire Gold Member

    Messages:
    3,510
    Likes Received:
    5,767
    Status Points:
    4,170
    I could see legal requirements to have an real address for both commercial and personal credit? Especially on the commercial side where if you have a real business you should have some sort of fixed address where you receive your tax bills, vendor payments, domain name registration, business licenses, 1099's and such. I highly doubt that here in the US a true business could operate without some sort of fixed (or drop box style) mailing address.
     
  11. uggboy
    Original Member

    uggboy Gold Member

    Messages:
    50,181
    Likes Received:
    133,438
    Status Points:
    20,020
    It's fascinating how many here find reasons to be with the banks, the laws and whatever, all the while the OP has done nothing wrong, I mean he/her lives in hotels, while unusual, this shouldn't be a real reason for denial of service. It's all about the mold and more posters than not try to find the right fit for the OP within that mold without getting to a solution, it's more like defending the lender / CC provider for doing that what "they are doing" is ever so right and convenient. Sorry for the rant, but something has to be said with all that "the laws says so" or "Oh yeah, you live a different kind of life, is something wrong with you?".
     
  12. uggboy
    Original Member

    uggboy Gold Member

    Messages:
    50,181
    Likes Received:
    133,438
    Status Points:
    20,020
    I never suggest that. The problem here is, as long the OP doesn't change his/her lifestyle, gets "creative" or the lender does something "outside the box" nothing will change in the situation described in the case above in #1.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2014
    B1BomberVB and anileze like this.
  13. HaveMilesWillTravel
    Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

    Messages:
    12,504
    Likes Received:
    20,199
    Status Points:
    16,520
    Last I checked, there was no law that forced a bank to issue someone a line of credit (presumably as long as they didn't discriminate based on race, gender, ...).

    Just like there is no law that forces me to do business with that particular bank if they don't fit my "template".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

    There are threads in other forums where people discuss this. They are being asked to provide a physical address to their bank, and a PO box or a mailbox store is usually not sufficient.

    Bingo. OP says "This is a new global world" but how many people really do live 365 days a year in a hotel now, compared to ten years ago (ignoring those residential hotels targeting the homeless who wouldn't be credit card worthy anyway)? I don't know anyone personally. Banks are big corporations and they aren't set up to be flexible, nimble or change their processes because someone says "it's a new global world" now.

    What card/bank are we talking about anyway? And does the OP still have the two cards with that bank that are mentioned in the beginning of the post, or were they churned?
     
    MX, anileze, LETTERBOY and 1 other person like this.
  14. uggboy
    Original Member

    uggboy Gold Member

    Messages:
    50,181
    Likes Received:
    133,438
    Status Points:
    20,020
    Everyone lives in his/her little world, no wonder in a world with so much fragmentation our planet goes into a direction which isn't desirable right now.

    This mirrors all opinions here, a lot of "here" and "there" which could be "everywhere", but nothing changes. Now we all feel so well, what a "community".
     
    anileze likes this.
  15. HaveMilesWillTravel
    Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

    Messages:
    12,504
    Likes Received:
    20,199
    Status Points:
    16,520
    I am honestly confused.
     
    MX and LETTERBOY like this.
  16. LarryInNYC

    LarryInNYC Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,384
    Likes Received:
    2,797
    Status Points:
    1,445
    Why not? Among other issues, if the lender ever had cause for legal action to reclaim an unpaid debt at what address would they serve the borrower with legal papers?

    I'm sure that the OP will be able to find credit if needed, but I think it's pretty reasonable for someone whom you're asking to lend you a substantial sum of money to require a fixed address at which to contact you. Would you lend me $20,000 knowing that I relocate to a different beach hut in various unspecified foreign countries on a weekly or monthly basis?
     
    boondr, B1BomberVB, iolaire and 4 others like this.
  17. LETTERBOY
    Original Member

    LETTERBOY Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    2,522
    Status Points:
    1,425
    You find it "fascinating" that people are going to have different opinions? Seriously? :rolleyes:

    Why not? Are you saying the bank should be forced to lend money to someone they're not comfortable lending money to? As noted above by LarryInNYC, what someone doesn't pay their bill? You don't think the bank should be able have a fixed address they can use to try to reclaim their money?

    You are aware that the United States is built on the rule of law, aren't you? Not the rule of fairness, but the rule of law.
     
    HaveMilesWillTravel, MX and anileze like this.
  18. sarah.telaviv

    sarah.telaviv Active Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    14
    Status Points:
    80
    First of all, thank you ugg-boy for understanding that I shouldn't have to fit a perfect mold. And, while my credit rating is exemplary, what is the difference in my credit risk to the bank finding me if I rent a furnished apartment for 3 months instead of living in a hotel where the manager wrote a letter that I was a long term occupant? What about people who just move without any forwarding address? My record should speak for itself, but obviously they want a perfect template and not to review the particular circumstances. I wonder if Howard Hughes had this problem too. Thank you all for your comments.
     
    uggboy likes this.
  19. uggboy
    Original Member

    uggboy Gold Member

    Messages:
    50,181
    Likes Received:
    133,438
    Status Points:
    20,020
    Thanks. I doubt Howard Hughes had such problems you have encountered.
     
  20. newhope1026

    newhope1026 Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    6
    Status Points:
    45
    Business are allowed to not do business with you if they don't want to. In your case, the risk of losing money is way higher compare to the profit that the bank can make.

    How can the bank know for sure that you are indeed who you say you are? Any novice identity thief can put in a credit card application, send emails, and make phone call the same as you do. The requirement to have a physical address add 1 more layer of protection for the bank, this they insist on that.

    Would you just love it if you can sit in a hotel (paid by cash & use a fake name), fill out online applications, and get a tons of credit cards on other people's name to spend freely?
     
    WilliamQ and LETTERBOY like this.
  21. mattsteg
    Original Member

    mattsteg Gold Member

    Messages:
    3,278
    Likes Received:
    5,543
    Status Points:
    4,170
    The risks associated with lending to continual travelers who are often outside of the country completely and offer significantly reduced opportunities for collection in situations where things do go wrong are quite a bit different from what would typically fit into their business. While you may not see yourself as a big risk, from their end it's likely a big unknown. Because your credit history is strong, if you did establish an address they could verify it would bring you back into their model as an acceptable risk, but to some extent that is more an indication of how permissive their standards are than an indication that they should relax them further. You still would possibly not be their "target customer" but you'd trick the underwriting systems to see you as acceptable. Also, the risk of identity theft and fraud goes way down once you've established even that minimal history with utility bills.

    People who leave without a forwarding address still leave a trail that can be followed. Your record speaks for itself in that you could disappear at any point in time (as far as they are concerned). At the end of the day, extending credit is a business decision, not something that you are necessary "entitled to" - even if you feel you would be a valuable and trustworthy customer.
     
  22. newhope1026

    newhope1026 Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    6
    Status Points:
    45
    Talking about valuable customer ... most of us are here on this board are after sign in bonus, special reward, and credit card churning. We probably cost the bank money rather than being valuable to the bank :))
     
  23. B1BomberVB

    B1BomberVB Silver Member

    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    244
    Status Points:
    470
    Marcwint55's suggestion with a twist: It would be nice if Sarah.telaviv could put her name on take reponsiblity for the utility bill(s) of an elderly (grand)parent/ aunt/ uncle in the USA who might forget to pay.
     
  24. Mapsmith
    Original Member

    Mapsmith Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,930
    Likes Received:
    7,696
    Status Points:
    6,570
    My suggestion to the OP would be to simply, physically go to a branch of that bank (hopefully one with a deposit account) and talk to a banker about the difficulty she has encountered. If it is a bank that she has been doing business with for years, the banker may be able to trim the red tape easily.
     
    Counsellor likes this.
  25. bigx0

    bigx0 Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    2,287
    Status Points:
    1,270
    Ryan Bingham got rid of his address but he didn't have such problems.
     

Share This Page