Airline sued over cashless cabin policy

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Travel' started by sobore, Aug 19, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. sobore
    Original Member

    sobore Gold Member

    Messages:
    12,421
    Likes Received:
    33,847
    Status Points:
    16,520
    http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/...-more-airline-sued-over-cashless-cabin-policy

    Being jammed into a plane for 10 hours can certainly feel like being stuck in a foreign country. But that's not the reason Michael Rosen's U.S. dollars were rejected on a recent flight from Hawaii to New York. As many travelers know, dollars — the physical kind — are useless once you board an airplane in most cases. You'll need plastic to buy a headset, a drink or a snack. Rosen, a New Jersey lawyer, thinks that's discrimination, so he's filed a lawsuit aimed at forcing airlines to treat greenbacks, and consumers who carry them, with more respect.

    A New Jersey state judge will hear arguments Friday to decide whether the case has any merit. Rosen is likely to get support from consumers who seem lodged in an endless battle with the airline industry, but he faces an uphill battle in court.

    The case began with a situation that captures a typical traveler's nightmare: stuck on a 10-hour flight with no form of distraction and no way to buy a drink or a snack. Rosen's attorney, Nathan Kittner, said Rosen flew from New York to Hawaii on Continental Airlines last year and purchased a headset with plastic. He was told the headset would work on all future Continental flights. So when he boarded his return flight, he checked his credit cards in his luggage and took the headset with him. He got bad news as soon as he sat in his chair.

    Read More:
    http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/...-more-airline-sued-over-cashless-cabin-policy
     
    savydog and uggboy like this.
  2. Eloy Fonseca Neto
    Original Member

    Eloy Fonseca Neto Silver Member

    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    1,024
    Status Points:
    870
    Well, this is a very dangerous games airlines are playing, since every vendor can't refuse the US Dollar, unless there's proof that they are fake, the US dollar is the official currency of the country and the world. Credit Cards are not currency. I hope the judge finds in favor of the customer, after all he's right!
     
  3. Pharaoh
    Original Member

    Pharaoh Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    4,502
    Status Points:
    2,445
    Not quite correct. A merchant is not required to accept physical currency as payments; they can make whatever choice they wish as to how to be paid. Good examples are near the end of the article.

    Some businesses, such as mine, don't accept cash at all. Only credit card payments are accepted because we don't have the facilities to accept and protect cash. And it's 100% legal.
     
    roberton3, Lufthansa Flyer and goalie like this.
  4. goalie
    Original Member

    goalie Gold Member

    Messages:
    3,003
    Likes Received:
    7,460
    Status Points:
    5,145
    And 100% correct-it's up to the merchant as to how they want to/choose to get paid (and no different than a merchant who accepts "cash only-no credit cards")
     
    Lufthansa Flyer likes this.
  5. sobore
    Original Member

    sobore Gold Member

    Messages:
    12,421
    Likes Received:
    33,847
    Status Points:
    16,520
    Very interesting. In theroy the corner fruit vendor can demand payment in swiss francs, should you not have any, no purchase would be made. Not a smart business move, but entirely legal I assume.
     
  6. Scottrick
    Original Member

    Scottrick Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    4,078
    Status Points:
    2,570
    CO should have made an exception for a guy who just bought a headset on the previous flight. The guy also shouldn't have been so dumb as do put all his credit cards in checked baggage. Does he leave them all at home when he goes out for the day? Why have them?
     
  7. MSPeconomist
    Original Member

    MSPeconomist Gold Member

    Messages:
    58,563
    Likes Received:
    98,528
    Status Points:
    20,020
    It's hard to believe that a lawyer would put credit cards in checked luggage. Also, if he had a $10 bill, surely a nearby passenger would be willing to take his money and use a credit card to purchase the headphones for him. Didn't he have anything with him to read?
     
    erthcrclr, mht_flyer, IMGone and 3 others like this.
  8. HaveMilesWillTravel
    Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

    Messages:
    12,506
    Likes Received:
    20,199
    Status Points:
    16,520
    Exactly. I'd be happy to walk up and down the aisle with the FAs and collect everyone's dollars and let them swipe my UA MP card.

    Something smells fishy here.
     
    icurhere2, PhlyingRPh and UA191 like this.
  9. Eloy Fonseca Neto
    Original Member

    Eloy Fonseca Neto Silver Member

    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    1,024
    Status Points:
    870
    If you look at a dollar bill -- er, Federal Reserve Note -- in your wallet, you’ll see that it says “this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private.”

    “Legal tender” is what makes an official currency official. It means that a creditor must accept federal reserve notes in satisfaction of a debt. If you get to the checkout line at the local Piggly Wiggly and the cashier demands payment inrubles or pesos you have every right to say “Sorry buddy, but I’ve got some Federal Reserve notes burning a hole in my pocket.”

    You have that right under the "legal tender" statute which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."


    Anyone has the right to disagree with the law, but everyone has to honor it!
     
  10. upgrade

    upgrade Gold Member

    Messages:
    5,351
    Likes Received:
    10,191
    Status Points:
    11,045
    roberton3 and Ygor like this.
  11. upgrade

    upgrade Gold Member

    Messages:
    5,351
    Likes Received:
    10,191
    Status Points:
    11,045
    A non-sequitur. When you get to the Piggly Wiggly cashier, there is no debt in need of satisfaction; rather, there is only a proposed transaction.

    What a merchant cannot do is let you buy on credit, and then refuse payment in legal tender (becase, well, you have tendered it in legal satisfaction of the debt). If the merchant were dumb enough to sue, proof of the offer ("tender") would preclude any supplemental recovery, such as interest after the date of tender.
     
    CDKing and Lufthansa Flyer like this.
  12. Mapsmith
    Original Member

    Mapsmith Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,930
    Likes Received:
    7,696
    Status Points:
    6,570
    I have to disagree. This has been hashed out over the internet in many places. The key words are "Debts, Public Charges, Taxes, and Dues". At the Piggly Wiggly no debt has been incurred at the checkout. You technically have not taken possession of the items. (and if you do outside of their terms it is theft!) What has occurred is the potential purchase from a merchant. If he/she does not wish to accept Dollars, rubles, or blades of grass, that is his right as a businessman. But no debt has yet occurred.

    Public Charges are for Taxis, etc. That are public conveyances. Taxes and Dues are self explanatory.

    So back to the original topic, the airline is justified in not allowing cash for attempted purchases on the airline. They have determined that accepting cash is not secure and can be complex while aloft. (The FA's "while there for our safety" seem to not be able to handle making change for a $20)

    I am not a lawyer, but am a merchant.
     
  13. sobore
    Original Member

    sobore Gold Member

    Messages:
    12,421
    Likes Received:
    33,847
    Status Points:
    16,520
    So is it correct to say: As a merchant I do not have to accept your form of payment for this product you wish to purchase today, however I do have to accept your $5 for the money you owe me from last week?
     
    CDKing likes this.
  14. wombat18
    Original Member

    wombat18 Silver Member

    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    429
    Status Points:
    520
    Agreed that merchants don't have to accept the transaction, and so no debt is incurred.

    But, how smart is it to refuse a customer's purchase? Aren't they in business to sell the service provided, which includes meals, headsets, etc. If they want to limit cash transactions, then maybe they should offer the suite/menu of options when you buy your ticket? I'd prefer that to FA's asking me if I'd like fries with my flight!
     
  15. HaveMilesWillTravel
    Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

    Messages:
    12,506
    Likes Received:
    20,199
    Status Points:
    16,520
    Well, we are talking abou plastic, not pesos. But I assume your argument is meant to cover that, too.

    So where on Amazon's checkout page do I hand them the dollar bills fo payment of my order?

    If I offer to sell you something. I can set the rules (and you can choose to buy somewhere else): I personally want to be paid either in marbles, gold nuggets or seedless red grapes ;-)

    While I understand why the airlines are going down this road, it is a bit unfortunate for some passengers who don't have plastic (as rare as it may be in the US). Imagine traveling on, say LH, and their credit card machine only accepts those PIN-enabled credit cards that no one in the US has. Maybe the airlines should sell vouchers for cash at the ticket counter?
     
    CDKing likes this.
  16. RestlessLocationSyndrome
    Original Member

    RestlessLocationSyndrome Silver Member

    Messages:
    1,014
    Likes Received:
    1,356
    Status Points:
    925
    The moral of the story boys and girls is... "It's important to have good credit".
     
  17. HaveMilesWillTravel
    Original Member

    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

    Messages:
    12,506
    Likes Received:
    20,199
    Status Points:
    16,520
    Or at least a prepaid ViSA from the grocery store ;-)
     
  18. Pharaoh
    Original Member

    Pharaoh Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    4,502
    Status Points:
    2,445
    It's not that the purchase is refused, just the form of payment. I used to work at a new car dealership in South Florida. And you know that a car dealership would never refuse a deal. But every week or two someone would walk in and pull out $30K or more in cash. We sent them to the bank down the street and told them to come back with a cashier's check. Most actually did return!
     
  19. Scottrick
    Original Member

    Scottrick Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    4,078
    Status Points:
    2,570
    I read that this guy was a lawyer on another blog. Anyone want to bet that this was a set up?
     
    HaveMilesWillTravel likes this.
  20. IMGone
    Original Member

    IMGone Silver Member

    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    327
    Status Points:
    575
    I don't think this suit is going anywhere and need to say the guy is stupid with a capital S for checking "ALL" his credit cards. I wouldn't check ONE, much less ALL. Wonder what the suit would've been had they lost his luggage or at least his wallet from that suitcase he just had to check (btw, the fee for the checked bag is also a cc transaction, most likely).
     
  21. Pat+
    Original Member

    Pat+ Silver Member

    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    419
    Status Points:
    545
    Wow. He's a lawyer but:
    1. He puts his credit cards in check baggage.
    2. He has no form of entertainment for a 10hr flight.
    3. He doesn't have a couple dollars in cash whatsoever.
    4. He somehow can't reuse his old headset (?)
    5. He can't convince anyone near him to help him with a few bucks, loan a headset, or make any similar arrangement.
    6. He doesn't have a phone, ipod or whatever kind of headset that would work for free.
    Either he's really dumb, or he's really smart and this is a publicity stunt. Whatever it is, it doesn't help the world move forward... there's really bigger fish to fry than fighting for cash on airplanes.

    Oh, and I wonder who he'd sue if for whatever reason his flight got diverted anywhere and he got stranded overnight. The airline for diverting? The hotel for not letting him checkin w/o a credit card? His seatmates for refusing to assist? The aircraft maker if this is a MX? The sick passenger if the flight got diverted because of a medical emergency? :)
     
  22. Pharaoh
    Original Member

    Pharaoh Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    4,502
    Status Points:
    2,445
    I really shouldn't ask but is it possible he is also a rabbi?
     
  23. IMGone
    Original Member

    IMGone Silver Member

    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    327
    Status Points:
    575
    I'm only seeing this as a VERY inappropriate reply ... can you shed light on anything, to make it appropriate?
     
  24. sobore
    Original Member

    sobore Gold Member

    Messages:
    12,421
    Likes Received:
    33,847
    Status Points:
    16,520
  25. Lufthansa Flyer
    Original Member

    Lufthansa Flyer Gold Member

    Messages:
    23,970
    Likes Received:
    43,968
    Status Points:
    19,995
    wow, an attorney suing someone for personal exposure/gain. quite the novelty........

    sounds like he just wants his 10 minutes of fame hoping he can claim he beat the airlines. And the cost of the airlines defending itself against this frivolity could only lead to the expenses somehow, in some minuscule way, finding their way to your airline ticket purchase.
     

Share This Page