Air Canada / Aveos issues (and AC's reponse)

Discussion in 'Air Canada | Aeroplan' started by mtlfire, Jun 10, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. mtlfire

    mtlfire Gold Member

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    I tend to lean towards the pro-union stance (obviously the updated intelligent 2012 union stance, but union just the same).

    I must admit that I found it odd that not long after Air Canada spins it off and the employees leave AC that it hits a wall and ends in Chapter 13. I'm well aware that Aveos is no longer affiliated with AC -- but I would think that as a good corporate citizen AC could have better stepped up to the plate to help thousands that months (in some cases days and weeks before) were still loyal AC employees.

    Where I work we are pro-union as well (albeit some are more militant than me). Typically whenever there is a labor strife we/I send out a little official letter of encouragement to the employees as well as asking management and the union to step up and get the issue solved. We've been doing this for years, we also get nice replies back all the time. At least in the last 9 years I don't remember ever getting any hate mail out of it. Until now.

    I have to laugh, but the president of AC was apparently a little too busy to write us back. Instead he seemed it would be easier and much more friendlier to send it to corporate legal. This way we could get a much clearer legal understanding of how clearly we were wrong, had no idea what we were talking about and they could close with a threat of further legal recourse should we continue to speak our opinion.

    I still get the giggles. I really don't want to waste too much money on it, but I think our lawyers should get a bit of a giggle from it as well.

    It did however make it much clearer what the management mentality is, and I have to say, that today I can appreciate much more the internal issues that AC unions must have dealing with it.

    As Dr. Evil would say, www.zipit.com.
     
  2. milchap
    Original Member

    milchap Gold Member

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    :confused:

    What exactly is your point ?
     
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  3. His point is that AC management has their collective heads buried in the sand. The reality is that AC's unions have long outlived their usefullness with way too many grievances and civil service mentalities. I know of one instance when a unionized employee was caught stealing red handed, was fired for cause, and the union grieved AC to force him back. It cost AC close to a 100K to beat back the union challenge through appeal courts etc. they won but at a significant cost, while the union sees it as defending their member. I think they would grieve a convicted murderer if it was a unionized AC employee. This a battle to take back management of the employees from the unions and strip them of most unecessary powers they have gained over the years.
     
  4. milchap
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    milchap Gold Member

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    You concluded that from the OP.s post ? :confused:
     

  5. Amazing, isn't it, how a union zombie always has the same language when they write stuff.;)
     
  6. mtlfire

    mtlfire Gold Member

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    Simply that in the many years of dealing with mangement or union, its the first time I've ever seen a party have their law firm fire off a response.

    If you found nothing interesting in it, you just had to withhold from hitting the reply button.
     
  7. mtlfire

    mtlfire Gold Member

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    Unfortunately, the majority of unions haven't learned that the economic times have changed. Or in the case of many unions, even if the leadership has, the members haven't come to the same conclusion. Its a rare occurrence to see (like we do recently with air canada, or other organizations) that the bargaining committee can come to a mutually acceptable deal with management only to see the membership vote against a recommended deal.

    As the pendulum swings back in favor of management, unions will either adapt, or cease to exist.
     
  8. NYBanker
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    NYBanker Gold Member

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    What hotel do you stay at?
     
  9. rehoult
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    rehoult Gold Member

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    Well said.

    On Aveos, they were independent (lets ignore the employee transfer talks that went on forever) for ~8 years before going under and the only major contract they ever managed to sign was with AC (and that was legally mandated). Mostly it seems because their costs were so high that they couldn't bid competitively and AC/ACE would've known that before the spin-off. Knowing that, they decided that spinning it off and letting it sink or swim on its own merits was preferable to keeping it within AC where they would be obligated to subsidize it; knowing of course what the likely outcome was.

    I don't think it was desired, I have no reason to believe that ACE/AC wanted anything but success from AVEOS, but wishing success and expecting success are very different.
     
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  10. Your analysis is correct
    It was thought at the time of the breakup that Aveos would find its way in the world through an acquisition or merger with another similar Company. Their cost structure drove suitors away after finding out the union agremeents were sacrosant to the workers.
     
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  11. mtlfire

    mtlfire Gold Member

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    Granted there's a debate between air canada and quebec government on what constitutes keeping a repair center in montreal; one had to be pretty naïve (generally speaking, not yourself) to think that aveos could compete internationally with such requirements that other companies weren't stuck with.
     
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